Author Topic: you would have thought the Germans won the war...  (Read 1222 times)

Offline pervert

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2008, 05:07:44 PM »
That's Hitler for you.

Hitler was no better or worse than other leaders at the time regarding propaganda.

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2008, 05:10:42 PM »
Hitler was no better or worse than other leaders at the time regarding propaganda.

Its a question of degree isnt it?

"No worse" compared to the leaders of the Western Democracies? Well....Im waiting.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 05:12:34 PM »
you want propaganda. how about Cronkite telling America that the commies won the Tet offensive.

Offline cpxxx

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2008, 05:22:18 PM »
People making comparsions to the current situation should be careful. One year after D-day it was all over. Five years after the invasion the British and Americans were heroes to the Germans during the Berlin airlift.

Five years after 2003?  Easy to blame the media isn't it?

Offline pervert

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3968
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2008, 05:32:39 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlP0mj8ydwk&feature=related

If you beleive that any western goverment wouldnt pull the wool over your eyes in the past present or future you are badly mistaken and a bit naive to be honest. 

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2008, 05:37:56 PM »
The way you worded that is a little loaded, lets see if I can help. 

The US has more casualties in the IRAQ war than the US had on D-day. 

There, a little better perspective.

thanks, I thought it was a gem too, although I wasn't trying play current politics with it. :(

I'll help YOU. The Allies suffered 10,000 casualties in ONE day, including over 4,000 KIA, on D Day, while invading Normandy. The U.S. has not yet reached 4,000 KIA in Iraq.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2008, 05:41:38 PM »
you want propaganda. how about Cronkite telling America that the commies won the Tet offensive.

Yes, and North Vietnam freely admits that Cronkite's assertion was critical to their war effort, which, at the time, was by their own admission, on the verge of collapse. I believe the leading Communists of the Stalin/Lenin era called people like Cronkite "useful idiots". He did manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory though. A crowning achievement, I suppose.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2008, 06:43:54 PM »
Germany did win the war. They were liberated from the Nazi regime, they regained most of their geography. The country was rebuilt with the generosity of other countries. And now, despite the fact that gasoline cost $12 a gallon there, it is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and it's economy is still growing.

How are they able to have such a healthy economy when petroleum, something that germany doesn't produce at all, is so expensive? Petroleum has more influence on the US dollar than the US federal banks. The price of oil goes up, and the value of the US dollar goes down. We should learn something from Germany.

Regarding Tet. The tet offensive was a victory for the communist insurgents, even though it was a military defeat. In terms of warfare, the forces of South Vietnam and the forces fighting on their behalf were winning the war day after day, year after year, untill the South was defeated.

The point is, and even today some very important people don't get this, is that you can't militarily win a war against guerrilla insurgency. It's not something that can be defeated by physical attrition. The way to defeat a guerrilla insurgency is by making the insurgents irrelevant. What that means is that you have to secure the populace against the terrorism of the guerrillas to the point that the populace has confidence in that security and in the forces providing it. If the people don't believe that the security forces are commited for the long enough term, they're not going to risk contributing anything. Securing the populace requires significantly more man power, yet monetarily the cost is less than attrition warfare. There are many many examples in vietnam where the destruction of a handfull of rice eating, sandal wearing, sks toting guerrillas cost the US tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Obviously this is not a sustainable strategy, and it wasn't. The solution takes time and alot of men, but not necesarilly an expensive arsenal. You have to make the populace secure from the guerrillas and keep it secure untill the futility of the guerrilla situation disolves the ranks and will of the insurgents and their proponents to the point where the movement collapses and dissolves back into criminal cells small enough to be managable by the police agencies. Take, clear and hold is a ridiculously simple concept, appearantly unfasionably simple. But it works, it just demands time and commitment.

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2008, 07:06:01 PM »
Hehe,nice post Suave.
Anyway, just to get into the original post and link, think how much "wochenshaus" like these weighted.
And it has no point of realism in it. It always looked as Germany was winning and evrybody else on their last feet.....Even when making massive landings or knocking on Berlin's door...

And Pervert...don't tell me you're Scolzie?
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline yanksfan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1298
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2008, 07:29:44 PM »
ESTES- will you have my baby?
Ack-Ack -As long as we can name the baby Shuffler if it's a boy and Mensa if it's a girl.

80th FS "Headhunters"

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2008, 11:41:18 PM »
The way you worded that is a little loaded, lets see if I can help. 

The US has more casualties in the IRAQ war than the US had on D-day. 

There, a little better perspective.

If you really want perspective, the breakdown of US casualties was 1,465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Of the total US figure, 2499 casualties were from the US airborne troops (238 of them being deaths). The casualties at Utah Beach were relatively light: 197, including 60 missing. However, the US 1st and 29th Divisions together suffered around 2000 casualties at Omaha Beach.

On D-Day, the Allies landed around 156,000 troops in Normandy. The American forces landed numbered 73,000: So the US troops were 47% of the invasion troops.  In March 2006, (before the surge) of the 151,600 foreign troops in Iraq, 133,000 were American. (88%)

Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Motherland

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8110
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2008, 11:49:42 PM »
The U.S. has not yet reached 4,000 KIA in Iraq.
Outdated information is outdated.
The current Iraq death count is 4092.

Source:
http://icasualties.org/oif/

Offline straffo

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10029
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2008, 02:46:24 AM »

Offline Rich46yo

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7358
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2008, 06:07:12 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlP0mj8ydwk&feature=related

If you beleive that any western goverment wouldnt pull the wool over your eyes in the past present or future you are badly mistaken and a bit naive to be honest. 

You miss the point. We have a free media whos right to free speech, as is ours, is protected by our Constitution. A western Govt. that lies to the people is at risk of being discovered and then being voted out. Even worse if they break the law.

But I have places to compare with. Ive lived in countries without these kinds of rights and freedoms. Thats why I laugh at these "America becoming like the Soviets" types of threads.

But yes, you are correct that every type of Govt. will "spin" a story.
"flying the aircraft of the Red Star"

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6128
Re: you would have thought the Germans won the war...
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2008, 06:22:06 AM »
Outdated information is outdated.
The current Iraq death count is 4092.

Source:
http://icasualties.org/oif/


That includes deaths due to non combat related accidents and other causes. So your incorrect information is, well, incorrect information.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe