Blackout Cheat

[spinny]

This may have been already broached, but here goes. I had a fight with someone over the weekend, and after it, he apologized for using the "blackout cheat." If I had ever heard that expression, I'd forgotten it, so I asked him what he meant. "Oh, you know, if you're blacked out, you still have control of the plane." Ah.

Now, this is very unrealistic. If you're blacked out, you should have no control over your aircraft. I'm hoping this will be fixed in the near future. I think this would bring about some fairly significant changes in the way we fly and fight.

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Spinny, VF-17
8X

[Vermillion]

Yes and No Spinny

Just because you are blacked out, doesn't mean you are passed out or unconcious.

As you start to pull more and more G's, you first get the tunnel vision, then it gets progressively blacker, until eventually you pass out.

There is a period where you can have little to no vision, but still be fully concious and in control of your aircraft.


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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires "

[spinny]

I understand that...I ride the tunnel myself, I'm talking about coalsack blackout...you should not have any control at that point.

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Spinny, VF-17
8X

[spinny]

Sorry, I was a little rushed on that last.  What I mean is this: If you enter frank blackout, not the tunnel, you should have no control over the aircraft, and you should not be able to restore control immediately by simply easing off the stick...if you're totally blacked out, you should stay that way for 2-3 seconds with no control at all.

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Spinny, VF-17
8X

[Minotaur]

Spinny;

I have had some thoughts along this line, I am pretty sure the folks at AH have also.  This is Beta.

I am hoping that Blackouts, Redouts (total) and Pilot Wounds will all adversly effect the pilots ability to fly and the inability to shoot.  Currently they do not, you just can't see.  I am not sure what effect Pilot Wounds will have, none yet that I can figure out.

With the except of Pilot Wounds, I was also hoping that that the same conditions will dis-engage Otto Pilot or prevent engagement.  As well as damage to the Otto Pilot System itself from combat damage.

Mino

[Pyro]

Spinny, how it works is that you don't lose consciousness as soon as you get all the way black.  If you hold it there for a couple of seconds, LOC will occur resulting in loss of plane control.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[spinny]

Hey, well thanks, Pyro...I am glad to find out I'm wrong...maybe I've just haven't stayed blacked out long enough...online, anyway  

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Spinny, VF-17
8X

[miko2d]

 I did experience the total blackout for a few seconds (more then 5), but I did not lose conciousness. I know that because I could hear the instructor talking all the time and even doing things on his command, like turning my face towards the camera or applying rudder.
 Our body has special provisions to keep the brain supplied with blood. Not so with the eyes. Until you hit really heavy Gs (9+?) for a while, the blackout has nothing to do with brain or loss of conciousness, just the eyes!
 So you can control the airctaft while blacked out. I would venture to state that a healthy pilot would sooner tear off the wings from a prop plane before he reaches enough Gs to lose conciousness. Jets are another matter, of course...

miko--

[This message has been edited by miko2d (edited 11-29-1999).]

[jedi]

The key is how many G's you're pulling.  An untrained, average Joe might well black out visually at 5 G, especially if he's not doing a proper G-straining manuever.  He probably wouldn't lose consciousness for another couple of G's or so though.  So in that case, he could probably control the plane (although a real plane isn't going to go where you think it's going if you fly it with your eyes closed, while a virtual plane can be flown somewhat "accurately" while blind).

However, presumably we're simulating "trained, battle-hardened" fighter pilots here.  A fairly good guide would be: onset of tunnel-vision, about 5-6 G, tunnel-to-blackout, about 7G, loss of consciousness/control, 8G (9G tolerance is for guys wearing G-suits, in 30-degree ejection seats)    You could also add a "severity penalty" for maintaining a blacked-out (cold) state for more than, say, 10 seconds.  In most cases, pilots who've actually GLOC'ed take several MINUTES to regain sufficient awareness to actually fly the plane effectively.  I don't think we should model it as minutes, but being a "passenger" with controls frozen at neutral for, oh, 20 seconds or so would be a pretty good "object lesson."  

While it may be POSSIBLE to fly while blacked out, doing it at the G-levels modeled in the game would be a RARE exception, rather than an acceptable simulation.

--jedi

[leonid]

Minotaur, I think a wounded pilot may not be able to open a chute.  I died once, because I was unable to deploy my chute(had a good amount of time too).  Kept hitting 'O', but to no effect.  I don't know if I was wounded, but my aircraft had taken many hits.

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129 IAP VVS RKKA

[drdoyo]

Tsk..tsk..., There ya go again Jedi, posting HELPFUL info =>!! This E-6 SALUTES the O-5!!
Keep on giving the "pointers from the command seat" =))

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Drdoyo, Lt. J.G.
VF-17 the Jolly Rogers
8X

[aces38]

Actually, what seems to be played here is actually Greyout. And if we are totaly greyingout at @6 G's (BTW, way too early) You still can fly the airplane! You just loose vision. Blackout usually never occurs in a Pilot b4 a sustained 9G's. WW2 pilots very rarly ever lost contiousness, greyout was more common. Greyout should NOT start b4 @ 6 G's, and NEVER from just "pulsing the stick" it must be sustaind for @ 2 or more seconds ! Unless the pilot has a hangover or is very dehydrated and its hot. i.e. Dehydrated anyhow. No the average street person who has NO TRAINING would probably G-out at about 3-4 G's. But pilots are not "average untrained Joe's"!

BTW, I have had extensive training on this subject and experience, sustaing easily (w G-suit over 7G' w/o even greyout!) BTW G-suits are good for @ 1 G extra, according to the USAF physiological training.