rolling scissors

[uptown]

I want to work on the rolling scissors in the DA until I get it down. If anyone could help me that'd be great. I'm on in the mornings from 7:30am to about noon central time.

[uptown]

  you sissys are scared aren't you  come on, stall fights are fun, besides I'm a easy kill 

[BaldEagl]

I'd try to help but I'm at work then.

[Scotch]

That's way early.

[Yenny]

Here is what it looks like for AH, from a duel between bighorn vs domin

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9EJa3griOMg

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EElAjwTWODI

and here is how it looks like in real life

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dzLGSvHBkMI&feature=related

but if you can't find anyone, you can alway smsg me if you see me inthe game and I can help you out.

Yenny

[Bosco123]

Rolling Scissors is not to hard, all you need to do is put all the flaps down, and keep going up with it untill the other guy stalls the airplane and pulls down. You can go right in for the kill.

[jerkins]

Rolling Scissors is not to hard, all you need to do is put all the flaps down, and keep going up with it untill the other guy stalls the airplane and pulls down. You can go right in for the kill.

That sounds more like a rope to me. Rolling scissors are quite different.  If you see me online uptown I will duel you a few time and we can work on it.  I use the move quite a bit.

[uptown]

Skyrock was helping me out yesterday and I got the concept of it, but i just need alot of practice.I have a bad habit of spinning out of control and wanting to go inverted when i shouldn't and drop my nose when I should pull up.Since my main ride is the pony these days I feel the need to learn something besides blast in at 400mph and climb back up. That doesn't take much skill and it's getting old.
Thank you for the replys and Bosco I'll look you up and if you're not too buzy well have a go at it . thanks 

[RumbleB]

Rolling Scissors is not to hard, all you need to do is put all the flaps down, and keep going up with it untill the other guy stalls the airplane and pulls down. You can go right in for the kill.

that's a rope..

[uptown]

TY jerkins, I'll look for you also sir.I agree that does sound like a rope to me too. What I want is to cause a faster con on my six in a climb with me, to over shoot. If he is say 600 back I go vertical and flip over, hit 1 or 2 notches of flap, throttle back and wait for him to fly by and into my guns.I guess what I'm trying to describe is a vertical rolling scissors.
My biggest problem is when I try to do this I stall out of control at the point where I can get a shot, missing the kill ever time.What Skyrock was trying to get me to do is flatten back out instead of going nose down to gain speed.Because this was just exposing my 6 to him all over again.

[BaldEagl]

TY jerkins, I'll look for you also sir.I agree that does sound like a rope to me too. What I want is to cause a faster con on my six in a climb with me, to over shoot. If he is say 600 back I go vertical and flip over, hit 1 or 2 notches of flap, throttle back and wait for him to fly by and into my guns.I guess what I'm trying to describe is a vertical rolling scissors.
My biggest problem is when I try to do this I stall out of control at the point where I can get a shot, missing the kill ever time.What Skyrock was trying to get me to do is flatten back out instead of going nose down to gain speed.Because this was just exposing my 6 to him all over again.

That's not a rolling scissors either.  A rolling scissors is designed to allow a faster moving plane to remain behind the 3/9 line of a slower moving plane without losing speed or energy.  You do this basically by barrel rolling to extend the horizontal and vertical elements of your flight path thereby increasing distance travelled while maintaining the flight path itself.

The fun in a rolling scissors starts when both guys are doing the same thing around each other for the same reason.

[uptown]

Thats what I described, except I'm going straight up where as you're talking about horizonal...no?

[humble]

A rolling scissor is any scissor executed in an intertwined spiral. One of the key elements is to realize that the rolling scissor is a reactive move that needs to be altered/modified based on the cons level of involvment. I think thats what Mark was trying to teach/show you. You cant fly a "rolling scissor" in a preset pattern and its not a move you can really force easily. By definition its a defensive move thats "offered". The enemy can decline the scissors or not. Normally a rolling scissor is a transition from a break turn, if the con follows and the defender can successfully reverse then a scissors develops. If one or both use any type of vertical component a "rolling scissor" develops. What your describing is a vertical rolling scissor which is tough to achieve....

Here are a couple of old A-20 clips that involve various flavors of rolling scissors (going from memory here).

1st is spatula and I, basically the entire set of engagements is a variety of rolling scissors...
http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/funwithkitchen%20utensils.ahf

The second one is a kind of variation on a rolling scissor. I'm not sure where the clip starts but at the end I get bounced by an La-7. I dont have any real set up for a rolling scissor so it gets converted to a climbing semi flat scissor....which i think is what Mark was saying to you. I dont want to speed up, I want to keep the AoA high and speed low but I need a vertical component...so you have a climbing "rolling" scissor but it's very oriented to the lala's actions.http://az-dsl.com/snaphook/meandmiami.ahf

One real key to the rolling scissor is managing views, in both clips I'm pretty sure I've got my eyes on the bogy 100% (or close to it) of the time....

[uptown]

ok thanks, i'll check it out. and yes i'm finding it REAL tough to achieve

[humble]

Spatula put his clip up also way back when. The a-20 is one of the few planes I can initiate a "rolling scissor fight" with as an offensive move. The problem is that in the end it relies on getting slower then the con and once you see it a few times guys learn to appear to "accept" it but then transition to a climbing spiral type of fight.

I'd recommend focusing on variation in AoA vs "vertical alignment"....you want either an ascending or decending rolling scissor based on what gives you the edge vs the other guy. If you handle high AoA better take it up, if you can scrub E better take it down (just my opinion)...

Heres the link to spatula's film of the fight (hope its still up)...

Best thing to to fly a few with the other guy fiming so you can see what your rolling scissor looks like to him...
http://www.my2cents.co.nz/taurineman/spat_humble.zip