Aiming the Mk108 30mm gun - one example

[Agent360]

I made this up tonight. Hope it helps

This is an example of the lead you need for a 400+ deflection shot...the most difficult to make.
In this example the target is trying to turn up and back to me. All the things were right for this shot.....No G's...well if you look at the gauge I am pulling 3.7 g's but that is because I am pulling the nose up a bit compensate for the drop. And a target tracking "to my guns" as opposed to me tracking to him.

These images are 800x640 but the actual size may be bigger when in the game so consider that. The actual distance of lead is probably 20% more due to this size difference.

The shots start HIGH above the target and I am nose down about 20 deg or so. This allows the rounds to drop onto the target. Remember that the rounds really drop over distance so its not just the lead horizontally it is also the verticle lead.

The red dot is the target so you can see where he is when I start firing
Image 1 - The first shot is taken



Image 2 - The first 30mm that hits is fired.


Image 3 - The the first round make a kill shot. There is a second round just coming in that hits and finishes the kill. I fired about 8 rounds. At this distance you have to squeeze of a few more than when close.



Image 4 - This is a composite of all the images showing the targets track as I am shooting. The cockpit layer is reduced so you can see through it and see the track. I did this in photoshop.....so dont think I got some kind of wall hack or something....lol

If you look at the first 3 shots above you see the red dot is not really in the same spot as the track. That is because the cockpit image is the last one in the series and doesnt show the cockpit move with the other images. But the track is at the same time as the cockpit. So this shows the real track of teh plane at this point in the film.


The whole film - 17 seconds.
http://northwestflorida.com/aceshigh/training/gunnery/shot_1/film42_0043.ahf

Agent360

[Yenny]

damn that a big lead, I never take shots that far in k4 now. I know I will most likely miss, so I tend to work my opponent to where he is right infront of my gun.

[goober69]

i will fire just the machine gun that far out and hope for lucky pw or kill, im not comfortable at 200 yards yet but i get lucky some.

am i correct in the assuption that its good to just give the triger a quck squeeze maybe a 2-4 round burst then reaquire and re lead again?

i actualy got six kills with it the other night taking just point blank one quick pull shots.

[SAS_KID]

Very nice. I can't even hit 400 out with 50's.

[Agent360]

am i correct in the assuption that its good to just give the triger a quck squeeze maybe a 2-4 round burst then reaquire and re lead again?

Yes most times that is best but when taking 400+ shots.... shoot a few more.

When taking snap shots u either hit or miss so no need to hold the trigger down. Tap the trigger.....2 3 4  rounds

Yenny...yes the lead is a lot. Way more than u think. I still struggle with firing that far ahead....I have to talk out loud to make those long leads sometimes. I contstatly have to force myself to shoot. It is a fight with my mind....for some reason I cant make myself mis by shooting too far ahead but I got no problem with missing late....go figure.

But I recommend u try these shots. Try any shot u have. If you can roll over...pull up...or nose into a lead for a shot ....TAKE IT

The more you shoot at shots "you" think are impossible the more you will start making them.


Agent360

[Bronk]

Cant DL film.

[moot]

Yes most times that is best but when taking 400+ shots.... shoot a few more.

When taking snap shots u either hit or miss so no need to hold the trigger down. Tap the trigger.....2 3 4  rounds

Yenny...yes the lead is a lot. Way more than u think. I still struggle with firing that far ahead....I have to talk out loud to make those long leads sometimes. I contstatly have to force myself to shoot. It is a fight with my mind....for some reason I cant make myself mis by shooting too far ahead but I got no problem with missing late....go figure.

But I recommend u try these shots. Try any shot u have. If you can roll over...pull up...or nose into a lead for a shot ....TAKE IT

The more you shoot at shots "you" think are impossible the more you will start making them.

It's good to make the ballistics a sort of extension of yourself. Just like learning any tool, the best way to make yourself proficient with it is to automate it to the point that it becomes a thoughtless routine.  If you start thinking about it too much, you'll spoil any accurate instincts. Like Agent said and Bruce Lee said too, you have to let it happen on its own, no forcing it: Bruce Lee soundbite
It's analogous to what they teach in firearm classes - the last thing you do as you prepare the pull the trigger is to get it just under enough pressure for the shot to then go off without any spoiling movements.
Lately I've been watching films of my fights and I actualy overshoot the taters by just a bit.. Pretty disconcerting when the difficulty's supposed to be in leading enough. 

[Agent360]

Cant DL film.

I checked the link and it works. Could have been net congestion.

Try it again.

[Rich46yo]

My experience with 30mms is pretty much with the 110. Basically I fire where I think the airplane "will be". With the 110 you have the advantage of having a whole lot of 30mm ammo so you can really hose with it. So not only do I avoid HOs with 110s I avoid getting close enough to one and anywhere he can get a solution on me. Last night I killed 4 fighters right in a row while in a 110. When you hose them with your 30mms it can put lights out very dramatically. I have found foot rudders very helpful in adjusting tater aim.

[evenhaim]

I got loads but here are a couple
http://www.furballers.com/files/freezovershoot.zip

http://www.mediafire.com/?so5v0mmgmya

http://www.mediafire.com/?juv1mwejlyz

http://www.mediafire.com/?inr3ilipjgi

some fun film i recommend slowing it down.

-freez

[Motherland]

Snapshot at pretty much full rudder deflection.




2-3 30mm's hit. The result-

[Agent360]

Snapshot at pretty much full rudder deflection.
2-3 30mm's hit. The result-

Cooooollll...nice work on the screen shots.

 

[Motherland]

Ty... I'm lucky he pulled up, I should've missed 

[Xasthur]

Great thread and great pics.

 

On the issue of convergence, which should mean you may have to increase or decrease your leading, how far do you guys set your 131s and 108s in the 109?

I'm tempted to start moving it out more (I have mine at 200 yards) because I've been flying the Fw 190 A5 lately and I have completely lost my touch with the 30mm cannon in the 109. I can't hit a frigging thing with it.

[Motherland]

I have every gun, on almost every plane, set to 300 yards. Probably not the best setting but it works. The two exceptions are the Fw190F8 which are at 400 yards (both banks) and the Me262 which has the upper bank set to 300 yards and the lower bank set to 600 yards for a 'shotgun effect'. It actually works pretty well.