Author Topic: Historians See Little Chance for McCain  (Read 833 times)

Offline john9001

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 02:35:19 PM »
shhhhh, just drink the koolaid, he is going to tax the rich and the evil corporations, he will change america and then change the world, we will live in utopia.

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2008, 02:36:50 PM »
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« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 02:38:22 PM by ZetaNine »

Offline ZetaNine

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2008, 02:37:53 PM »




agreed.

I bet the sob even opens "a constructive dialog" on slave reparations.

Offline JB88

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2008, 03:05:54 PM »
88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp.   What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .

I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal.   I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp.   I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit..  cool and witty.   Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.

The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality.   osamabama personifies this..

in my opinion.   

I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty.   These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.

lazs

well, to be honest, i've never been one for artists.  even though i am one  i have always been the wolf outside of that pack.  in general, i think that they tend to fear me.  or at least my influence.

i have very few actual "friends" who are artists, but those that have and who are, are top notch people, not senseless party goers.

everyday things inspire me most.

as far as obama.   i am not opposed to the notion of "hope", but i don't see such things as either interesting, or viable without good leadership.  reagan gave us hope.  i liked reagan.  he was a great commander in chief.  as i believe was bush sr.  they represented the best of the republican party i think.  at least, and most importantly, militarily.

kennedy was a great orator and i like him as a character because he spoke of our hopes and dreams in specifics.  he said, we'll go to the moon, we went to the moon.
(bay of pigs...well, he probably wasn't orating...anywhoo)

i don't see obama getting us anywhere but increased welfare spending, increased taxes and decreased incentive for business in america.

my mind goes to detroit and to "white flight".  

wheras colin powell (a black man) would build markets.  obama is going to obliterate them.  he's just bad juju and we shouldn't let ourselves be so easilly seduced by this hopeful romantic.  there is hard work yet to be done.  

i'd feel better with what he has to say being said in church rather than as our national mouthpeice.

i'll take mccain with a young progressive running mate.  let the running mate pull a cheney and do all of the work and we're set for a little while.  

dang.  i rambled.







this thread is doomed.
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word.

Offline lazs2

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2008, 03:16:02 PM »
88.. good ramble.. I found it interesting and.. to be honest..  I have nothing negative to say about it.

I am all for "hope".. I am an optimist of the highest order.   I think that the trouble starts when "hope" is defined.  If "hope" means that only utopia is acceptable.. that all injustice is attacked and an attempt to rectify it is made.... well.. then you get thousands suffering because of an accident of one or the stupidity of one..

If hope and utopia mean the the individual is crushed or that individual rights are crushed then I want no part of that "hope".   

Change can mean getting a cancer.   Change can mean less money to raise your family..   Change for changes can be pretty bad.

osamabama is also a racist of the worst kind..

lazs

Offline JB88

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2008, 04:01:36 PM »
<S>
this thread is doomed.
www.augustbach.com  

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. -Ulysses.

word.

Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2008, 04:16:25 PM »
All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.
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Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2008, 04:40:13 PM »
Ive been voting for Presidents since 1976. That word "change" is used so much in campaigns they should tattoo it on their foreheads. Klinton was a master of using that word, and since Obama is modeling so much of his strategy on Billys it should come as no surprise he uses it a lot too.

What makes Obama different is he really isn't saying what, if anything, hes going to change.

Colin Powell has already made it plain hes a Republican. He also has no interest in public office. If McCain is really slick he'll ask Connie Rice. Then both parties will have someone black on the ticket.

A lot of people say Bush = bad but when you ask them why they dont to go blank. Dont overestimate the Intelligence of voters. Both Obama and Billary just had an extended primary campaign where they said almost "zero" about their Policies or where they stood on issues. Mostly they showed up to stumps and said whatever their strategists told them to say.

Obamas saying hes going to start a pullout of troops from Iraq. Thats a pretty safe thing to say cause those troops will begin to be pulled out before the next President moves in anyway. The truth is Iraq is stabalizing and its security improving as is every other facet of Iraqi life. So all those Yank troops wont be needed and some will be pulled out no matter who wins.

But what Obama wont say is that Bushs troop surge has worked and thats why troops will be leaving Iraq. Why should he state facts when he can spin it and come out looking the hero? Its very possible most Yank troops will be out of Iraq by the time the next President moves in.

Imagine that? If Democracy and stability end up sweeping thru the Middle East then Historians may consider George Bush a genius.
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Offline Charon

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2008, 04:48:02 PM »
Quote
All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.

I don't like him because I've seen what a party hack he is in Illinois as both a state and federal senator. I've seen the party hack dud's he's endorsed (Stroger, Tillman, Daley, etc.) over better candidates just to keep the corrupt Cook County machine in power.

I don't like him because his comments and voting history is lockstep with the Dick Durbin/Teddy Kennedy extreme left wing of the Democratic party. Why replace 8 years of wasteful pseudo conservative republican excess with another 8 years of big govt. progressive Democrat excess.

And Obama's really some "outsider," being pushed up through the ranks by party hack Emil Jones then carried under the wing of Dick Durbin -- with Daley giving his blessing all the way. Wouldn't vote for Teddy or Dick either, if given the choice.

I don't like him because he is a typical politician, saying populist things about NAFTA yet secretly telling the Canadians not to worry, then trying to deny his way out of it when caught. Or where he claims to be a Washington outsider yet his top contributors reads like a who's who of Wall Street. Yeah, big financial houses really want change in Washington...

I believe that any candidate supported by Queen Oprah, or John Cusack or Scarlett Johansson or George Soros will be out of step with the needs of real people, at least those that do not believe all of life's' ups and downs should be mitigated by some govt. program because us little people just can't handle personal responsibility.

As for the racism, regardless of his leaning (and his wife's) towards the black liberation theology of James H. Cone I have to believe that much of that was pure state politics in action. When push comes to shove I believe he will drop or set aside this convection (I do blelieve it is ernest) like almost any other politician when faced with "conviction vs. votes." The black churches in Chicago are a power center linked directly to the city, county and state Democratic/patronage machine. Just like his Harvard education it opened doors that would otherwise be closed. Just like his community activism developed his power base early on. It is no longer needed.

Charon
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 04:51:08 PM by Charon »

Offline GtoRA2

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2008, 04:52:51 PM »
All you guys think that Obama is evil. Are you kidding me? He is one of the most sincere and truth telling politicians I have seen. He is not racist. I don't understand how you guys judge people's characters, but whatever method you are using is flawed. How can you not like the guy? Oprah even backs him. Everyone loves Oprah. I think the best of Obama is yet to come when the presidential debates begin. He is everything a president should be.

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Offline TwentyFo

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2008, 05:28:00 PM »
What makes Obama different is he really isn't saying what, if anything, hes going to change.

When Obama first started his campaign they [people] moaned about how he talked too much about specifics of his policy. They wanted him to focus more on his ideas rather than to get into the specifics of his policies. Now people are complaining that he doesn't say how he is gonna accomplish his ideas. Just because you don't hear him get into the specifics of a plan, doesn't mean there aren't any. If you want to know the specifics go to his campaign website.

Charon....I totally respect your opinon about the "Illinois political machine". However, when Obama mentions "reaching across party lines to work on issues" I believe him. He always stresses the importance of working together to solve some of the issues Americans face. He is a very inspiring individual that I think could help lead this country in a positive direction.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2008, 05:36:55 PM by TwentyFo »
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Offline NOT

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2008, 05:55:58 PM »
Quote
However, when Obama mentions "reaching across party lines to work on issues" I believe him. He always stresses the importance of working together to solve some of the issues Americans face.


name ONE time he has done this in his "career".




NOT



AKNOT

Offline SteveBailey

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2008, 05:57:18 PM »
Obama is not electible.   I've been saying this since  the start of the primaries.  Clinton was the dems only hope and that was dim indeed.
One of their few chances of getting someone in the White  House was Lieberman. There still aren't enough voting fools to get a lefty in the office of POTUS.

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2008, 06:08:06 PM »
88.. I see you as a thinking liberal.. this means nothing but that you are on the cusp.   What happens to thinking liberals is they get fed up with being lied to... with "the end justifies the means" .

I think also that you are not really a liberal in the socialist modern meaning of the term.. more like a Charlton Heston in the 50's kind of liberal.   I can't imagine that you will not find yourself in the libertarian or individualist camp.   I believe that you have been surrounded with modern liberals from the artsy crowd.. who are... give em credit..  cool and witty.   Just as so many are seduced by osamabamas oratory style.. many are seduced by what seems like witty from the socialists... satire and clever wit are more the perview of the modern liberal than of the conservative or.. even more so.. the libertarian or individualist.

The modern liberal is a follower of the cult of personality.   osamabama personifies this..

in my opinion.   

I think you suffer from the curse of intelligence and an overdeveloped sense of honesty.   These things get in the way of political party following but are death to anyone wanting to follow the liberal socialist cult of personality.

lazs
lazs you are one of the most ignorantly obediant lying conservative I've ever read. :aok 

Obama is a twit.

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Offline Shuckins

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Re: Historians See Little Chance for McCain
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2008, 06:15:27 PM »
Obama HAS no history of reaching across the aisle to cooperate with the Republican opposition.

Conversely, McCaine is well known for his willingness to engage in bipartisan lawmaking, and has drawn quite a bit of criticism from ultra-conservatives within his own party for doing so.

Check out Obama's record of achievements in Congress.  It is almost non-existent.