Author Topic: Marine Corps changes?!  (Read 649 times)

Offline Mackay

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2008, 05:15:26 PM »
Sorry you can't see the point, I will try to explain it to you. 

When you teach someone that while holding a position of authority or power over someone, it is okay to be cruel and abusive while taking advantage of your position or strength, you are abusing your position and basically teaching those under you to treat others the same way.  Hence the many cases of Marines raping young women and children that have occurred, tossing puppies off cliffs, shooting wild horses for fun around Camp Pendelton, etc.   If someone cares to study history, it is the same process that created cruel soldiers among the Japanese Imperial Army in WW2.  They were blatantly cruel to those they oppressed, including the Chinese and prisoners of war captured in places like Bataan because that is how they were treated and how they learned to treat others.

Personally wrongwayric didn't teach them what they needed, he failed them, and while it is just my opinion, the first time he kicked someone under him in rank in the nads and not in self-defense, he should have faced Courts Martial.  Do you think any troop under him could have done that to him and got away with it?  It can be argued he was "preparing them" etc, but that is just an excuse for a sadistic person.  That is why that type of treatment is in violation of the regulations.  The Sargent Major failed the troops also.

Your point smells of something I stepped in once. Have you ever served in the armed forces? Have you ever had to trained to kill someone? Have you ever been in combat where real bullets were coming at you and you had to return fire?

If Wrongwayric kicked some kid in the nuts during hand to hand combat training because the kid was getting too cocky about himself, then he did the right thing by showing that kid that not everything he learned in basic training actualy applies in the real world.

I've been there myself as a young kid that thought I knew everything I needed to kick butt and take names, and my squad leader decided to show me just how much I didn't know. It hurt but I learned a powerfull lesson, and that was to sit down, shut up, and pay attention to what the older guys had to teach me.

Now back to some of the other comments you made, just how many is "many cases" of Marines raping women, tossing dogs off cliffs, or shooting horses? Abuses like that take place all over the world by many different types of people. Looking at the big picture the average of that type of conduct being committed by Marines or any other US service man or woman is FAR lower than the average of civlians doing that sort of thing. There are bad apples in any group and the military is very quick to deal out justice to those members that cross that line and are caught. The Service didn't teach those people that commit those acts how to perform those acts. It goes against the very nature of the armed forces and the code of conduct we are taught from day one and expected to live up to.

You "point" holds about as much water as a screen door.

Offline wrongwayric

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2008, 08:45:51 PM »
The point i made with that young PFC was always expect the unexpected and yes don't get cocky. When ever your in a fight, wether it be practice or a real one you never take your opponent for granted.

Offline Stoney

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2008, 09:13:23 PM »
Fall for what?

The cases I allude to are real, reported, and have been prosecuted.  Sadly it seems way to common among Marine enlisted. 

I have tremendous respect for the history of the United States Marines and the tremendous sacrifices they have made for our country.  I just think something is going very wrong today in the recruitment and/or training of the troops.  It is appearing to be a systemic problem that must be fixed.



To answer the original question...Nothing has changed.  The Marines that are produced today are just as tough, just as professional, and just as efficient an expenditure of tax payer dollars as they used to be.  Perhaps some details have changed from your prior service Old Dobe, but the end product is the same--Killers in the employ of America.  Matter of fact, you could probably argue that Marines today are superior to those of old in their service on and off base, on the battlefield, and as ambassadors for America.

Dago, to use the term "common" is a false representation.  There are in excess of 190,000 Marines on active duty today, and 99.99% of them do exactly what you expect of them:  fight and win America's battles.  If you're drawing your opinion based on the articles you see presented in papers and stories on the news, you're doing yourself a disservice sir.  I was stationed in Okinawa for 3 years, and I can tell you that while there are some occasional rubs with the locals, most reports in the media are overblown and incorrect.

Bottom line is that I'd take today's Marines in my fighting hole any day...

Formerly, Captain Steven M Jackson, USMC
1996-2005
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline Maverick

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2008, 12:22:09 PM »
Saying that the Marines should be done away with because of the crimes of a few that got past the process to weed them out is like saying all Italians should be deported because the mafia is an Italian based organization. Another analogy would be to say that all white folks are racist since the KKK is a white based organization.

Stupid generalizations that besmirch the reputation and sacrifices of the vast majority who do serve with honor and distinction serve no purpose but to demonstrate the bigotry of the one making the statements.
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Offline Patches1

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2008, 12:30:21 PM »
Dago...

Your posts show no respect, nor dignity, to the United States Marine Corps; they simply show your ignorance.
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, General, USMC

Offline Patches1

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2008, 12:47:32 PM »
Olddobe....on topic...

The Corps always has been, and always will be, The Corps.

Semper Fidelis still means Semper Fidelis, and today's Marines still, and always will, uphold the Corps and it's Traditions.

Folks who post as Dago has are the same kind of folks who've always chipped at our pedistal...they've not the courage to commit, learn, adapt and overcome adversity as our Marines have over the past two Centuries; nor, are these folk likely to put their mouth (and butt) on the line when our Country calls.

Semper Fidelis
"We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem."- Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, General, USMC

Offline Dago

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2008, 05:07:44 PM »
Maybe I am a little to strong in my opinions, and as I stated I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Marine history and for those who serve proudly today, but I still believe there habeen too many incidents that have embarrassed the Marines and the USA.  A disproportionate amount of embarrassing incidents when the size of the Marine Corps in considered compared to the other services.

Something is going wrong in the recruitment, training or both.  That might not be a popular opinion, but I am pretty sure I am not the only one in this country wondering where the failure lies that there have been these scandals.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline Stoney

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2008, 05:18:37 PM »
A disproportionate amount of embarrassing incidents when the size of the Marine Corps in considered compared to the other services.

I'd like to see the statistics you use to back this statement up.  Again, I'd say off-hand that you have formed a perception that is not in line with reality.

Quote
Something is going wrong in the recruitment, training or both.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with either of these.  We're recruiting a higher standard of individual than at any other time in the history of the Corps.  And, given their success on the battlefield, I'd say the training is un-equaled within the conventional forces of the U.S.  I've even heard statements from Canadian SAS and British Royal Marines that the combined arms training available to the regular Marine infantry battalion exceeds that of any other they have participated in, or even know of. You're certainly entitled to an opinion, but I have to stress that an opinion formed through mis-information, bias, or media reports is far short of a credible one.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 05:22:09 PM by Stoney »
"Can we be incorrect at times, absolutely, but I do believe 15 years of experience does deserve a little more credence and respect than you have given from your very first post."

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Offline wrongwayric

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Re: Marine Corps changes?!
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2008, 06:25:47 PM »
Well it seems obvious to me Dago has never served in any of the armed forces. To single out the Marines seems to somehow IMO opinion appear to be a personal vendetta on his account or just a way to keep his thread going. I won't justify myself wasting anymore time trying to open his eyes as i see the futility in that. :(