Flying the P-47

[Murdr]

The premiss of the debate is that capturing territory, and winning the war is the whole point of the game.  HiTech has stated many times that Aces High is about accurately simulating WWII planes and vehicles.  The war aspect is to promote combat between those simulated planes and vehicles.  AH is not a war simulation, it is a combat simulation.  The difference (among many) is that players with the mindset of a total war simulation tend to avoid combat.  Which is the antithesis of what AH is about.

HiTech also created the ranking/score system for AH.  To have the top overall ranking one must perform well in air to air, air to air with ground attack, ground to ground or ground to air, and bombing.  Performance vs enemies carries 50% or more weight out of 3 of the 4 categories (combat).

True to life, bomber missions without fighter cover, that are intercepted are likely to get slaughtered, and the effectiveness of the bombers achieving their objective is not always a sure thing in the game.  The idea, even with the winning the war mindset, that fighters are irrelevent in AH is completely asinine.  In fact I beleive it wishful thinking. 

The fact is in the AH community, the only thing that garners universal respect is proficency in air combat.  Those that do not wish to put the effort into that can stick their fingers in their ears...ignore it...pretend that is not the case.  But I am sorry to inform you that A)  This is the way things are back 20 years through AH's predicessors.  B)  You look like a fool trying to convince everyone else otherwise.

[Damionte]

Actually the premise of the debate isn't about the point of the game. It's about the nature of the aircraft in it, compared to the normal climate of the current game.

Now I understand Combat Tour will be changing many of these aspects of the game. With the mission system and AI led bomber groups.

Until it is finished this is what we have in the game at the moment.

The climate of the game is as a 1st person shooter with aircraft. The planes though are modeled after their real life mission plans and uses.

To give a bit of incentive to these "other" planes, they've been given the backdrop of a little mini war in the hopes of inducing a fight. So these other players who's favorite rides are not the pure dog fighters get in the game and attempt to run an accurate mission based on the characteristics of their aircraft.

They though are looked down on. Simply because the fighter jocks find it inconvenient to chase them down.

Essentially we've just stumbled into the furballers vs war winner debate again.

The War winners have been giving war winning type aircraft, and been given a war like scenario to try and win. They only get three choices of play though.

They can tool shed, trying their best to hit targets and return home, by hitting targets away from where the fur ballers are. 
Many of them though also crave the plane on plane action. They want to be challenged in the air while trying to accomplish their mission. The fur ballers won't chase them though so what do they do. They fly bombers and attack craft at the bases the fur ballers are using to play counterstrike. This of course just ticks off the fur ballers, who are usually unprepared to fend off a realistic attack, lose their easy to use fur balling bases and cry foul. Or they can turn off their logic chips, and essentially fly out as fodder for the fighter guys. They go out to do their mission but purposefully either ingress or egress incorrectly.

This has been playing out in the AvA arena. They're trying to play out a greater war scenario, but people keep getting stunned at how inconsequential the fighter planes are to winning a war given the mechanics of the AH-II system. People are bored and they stop playing.

[Damionte]

The point is that guys like this OP who's name I have forgotten are a bit of a minority. (They might not actually be. There's no telling how many more players the game would have if it catered to a wider fan base than just the fighter jocks. "Hence the development of Combat Tour")

Anyway he's in such a minority that it seems pointless to attack him for advising people in this manner. Which is actually closer to what a real P47 commander would tell his brand new pilots in an actual theater of war. Of those that stick around I doubt very many will stick long term to this style of play. They'll either advance on later to try and master other aspects of the game the way most players do, or they'll get bored and leave, which is what they would have done anyway.

[BnZ]

Anyway he's in such a minority that it seems pointless to attack him for advising people in this manner. Which is actually closer to what a real P-47 commander would tell his brand new pilots in an actual theater of war.

Not even a little bit close! Lets examine it point by point:


-They told their recruits that he P-47 was NOT a fighter plane? Under any circumstances?

Not on your life, many is the time P-47s skinned ords to FIGHT and WIN in WWII. Like anybody else flying in the Pursuit category, Jug pilots would be trained to fight A2A.

-NOT to divebomb, but to attempt to LEVEL-BOMB in a Jug?

Laughable. Without any sort of level bombing sight, you're doing well if you can hit the AIRFIELD straight and level from high altitude in a Jug.

-Don't attack GVs?

It was called a tankbuster in its day. Really, any bombing duty BESIDES tankbusting is better carried out by a formation of heavies. And Waldron apparently doesn't know that tanks cannot shoot back effectively at dive-bombers in this game....

-Only attack undefended targets/milk run?

Good work if you can get it. And on most missions, WWII pilots couldn't!

And finally, the most precious belief, that a 262 upping from a base you just bombed presents some kind of a threat to a Jug...uh, hello, what it presents is a vulching/semi-vulching opportunity on an aircraft that is nearly helpless on takeoff, landing, and the acceleration phase of flight.

"The first time I saw a jet, I shot it down"-Chuck Yeager

[Murdr]

I wasn't going to reply, because this thread should be left to wither and die, but it's been bumped yet again.  So...

This is the help and training forum.  This thread offers neither (excluding the overwhelming setiment to ignore the initial advise).  Please, let it die.  Please, take the aircraft discussion to the appropriate forum.  I am really going to cop an attitude if I have to call in the big guy on the same thread twice.

[Tr1gg22]

I wish I new how to post films :mad My squad specializes in one pass hanger drops.In jugs mind u.. The reason why we  do it in 1 pass with 2 thousand pounders and six rocket salvo...For 1 reason total base suppression- Second reason to have ord left over for the town.If everything goes right we would have 4 rockets and one five hundred pounder left...The rockets for town ack and 500 pound bombs for any pesky gvs that made it out of the vh. We also like to start our bombing run from 10 to 12k for maximum energy retention.To drop a hanger on the first pass takes a pretty fair amount of accuracy.The way all my squad mates learned that is through long hours of practice.I am very proud of the dedication my squad mates have put into that particular area of squad training.The most senior member in my squad besides myself and one other has only been playing for 7 months..My point is that I hope no one looking to learn anything about a jug dont read the garbage posted by ding dong..I mean stephen By the way rockets are great for deackin                                                                                                                                                

                                 I no there are probably better ways to use a jug than our squad SOP.. Just the way we do it