Wesley Clark: Obama Lap Dog & a Disgrace in General

[Tarmac]

Did Clark ever fire a bullet in anger?  Was he ever shot at while commanding troops in the field? let alone hit by SAM's and tortured the good old fashioned way for five years in a facility where dozens of top notch American servicemen were killed by means of torture?  I agree, Clark's service to the country was second to none, and a man of his caliber is clearly cut from damned good material, but his assessment of McCain's "lack" of qualifications to lead a nation based on genuine personal sacrifice when compared to Obama's abundant qualifications by mere "good character and ideas" seems way out of whack to me.

According to Wikipedia, Clark commanded an infantry company in Vietnam, where he received a Silver Star for his leadership in a battle in which he was shot 4 times.

[ROX]

Clark's politics is whacked.




ROX

[alskahawk]

 Being a Jr officer in the navy(or any other service) does not qualify you for commander in chief. Neither does being a congressman. The comments by General Clark are being taken out of context. The fact is that there is no prep for being commander of chief.

 Look at the last 10 years;
Bush 15 months of service; National guard. Flight training paid for by taxpayers. (OCS/flight training is nearly 15 months) Got excused (during wartime) to work on fathers campaign. Normal obligation for flight training? 6 years?
Clinton; Rhodes scholar. never served. (wartime)
Kerry; Served during wartime: was decorated. lost presidential race. His military service was used against him.

 The point is that much is made of military service or lack of it during the campaign but doesn't seem to matter on election day unless you can turn it into a liability.

[Toad]

I must have missed the part where a potential president was required to serve in or pretend to serve in the military..

My class lost a classmate and a class instructor in a T-38 simulated single engine heavyweight approach/landing. They died. Burned to death in the airplane at the end of the runway.

Were they "pretending to serve" since they were only in Air Training Command? After all neither were war fighters; one was a student that hadn't won his wings. Pretenders?

Have you done any study on the the fatality rate in the F-102? Do you have any idea of the fatality rate in Bush's F-102 unit?

Do you have any idea at all why Tom Wolfe wrote this:

Being a fighter pilot -- for that matter, simply taking off in a single-engine jet fighter of the Century series, such as an F-102, or any of the military's other marvelous bricks with fins on them -- presented a man, on a perfectly sunny day, with more ways to get himself killed than his wife and children could imagine in their wildest fears.

-- Tom Wolfe, The Right Stuff.

Have you served at all? Or are you just the typical cheap shot sniper?

[Charon]

You forgot Rhode's scholar.  I've served under him in a combat zone and was completely un-impressed by his decision making.  Just because he's got a great pedigree doesn't make him a great military commander.  One of my old CO's was on his staff in Europe, and he detested the guy--this was the opinion of a Vietnam (Combat) Vet Marine Colonel, after my experience as a participant in his catastrophic management of Kosovo, and fully confirmed what I observed on the working end of his decisions.  He sure looks good on paper--the classic warrior-scholar.  In reality, he's all pedigree and little else.  I can explain how he cost the U.S. taxpayer in excess of $75 million unneccessarily, merely because of parochialism.  It'd take a while, and is beyond the scope of this thread, but I can do it.  While I'll grant that the policy under which he acted was completely screwed up, his operational decisions extended the length of time that it took for the Serbs to sign the MTA, and cost Kosovar Albanians their lives, both directly and indirectly.  I can go on and on, but when you're staring down a FUBAR situation that could get you killed, and that he was ultimately responsible for, any trust in his pedigree is worthless.  He was a political general that was assigned under the providence of Bill Clinton, not his tactical accumen.  I loathe hearing him speak--I detest him that badly. 

Hackworth considered him to be the consummate "perfume prince" -- basically a careerist ticket puncher. As for his judgement about making bombs fall:

One of Clark's most argued decisions during his SACEUR command was his attempted operation at Priština International Airport immediately after the end of the Kosovo War. Russian forces had arrived in Kosovo and were heading for the airport on June 12, 1999, two days after the bombing campaign ended, expecting to help police that section of Kosovo. Clark, on the other hand, had planned for the Kosovo Force to police the area. Clark called then-Secretary General of NATO Javier Solana, and was told "of course you have to get to the airport" and "you have transfer of authority" in the area. The British commander of the Kosovo Force, General Mike Jackson, however refused to block the Russians through military action saying "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you." Jackson has said he refused to take action because he did not believe it was worth the risk of a military confrontation with the Russians. American General Hugh Shelton called Jackson's refusal "troubling," and hearings in the United States Senate suggested it may amount to insubordination, with Senator John Warner suggesting holding hearings regarding whether the refusal was legal and potentially changing those rules if it was.[72] British Chief of the Defence Staff Charles Guthrie, however, agreed with Jackson and told Clark this on the day Jackson refused the order.[73] Russian eventually withdrew its aid, as some nations, including Bulgaria and Romania (both of which sought eventual NATO membership), disallowed Russian aircraft to fly over their territory, halting their ability to bring in forces.

Charon

[soda72]

Wesley Clark is the 'George B. McClellan' of our time..

[Yeager]

in which he was shot 4 times.

By whom?

Point made, I will trust your visit to the wik.  So, It is fair to say that being shot four times does not qualify a guy to be President, although it doesnt hurt (no pun intended)

[59funkman]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/29/clark.mccain/index.html

This bothers me a great deal...  Wesley Clark comes out and endorses Obama -  and then has the gall to say McCain is "not qualified" to be Commander in Chief of the US armed forces.

McCain's Father, and Grand Father were both Admirals - and McCain graduated from the US Naval Academy and saw combat first hand.  He came "from the brass" and "fought in the trenches" - I can't think of a more well rounded profile for a Commander in Chief.

How dare he go there !  Especially considering Obama has never even so much as joined the Cub Scouts ! 

What, pray tell, Mr Clark, has Obama done, to make you think he'd make a better Commander in Chief ?

I thought Clark was right on the money.

[Carrel]

How come whenever a Vet comes out of the closet and announces he supports Obama the Republicans immediately try to attack his service record? It doesn't seem to matter how high of a rank the guy achieved, how many medals he won, anything-oftimes by people who never served themselves.

[Stoney]

How come whenever a Vet comes out of the closet and announces he supports Obama the Republicans immediately try to attack his service record? It doesn't seem to matter how high of a rank the guy achieved, how many medals he won, anything-oftimes by people who never served themselves.

I served, and I'm not a Republican fanboi.  See my comments posted above.  I feel the same way about Jim Webb as I do John McCain--regardless of their politics, we're a better country having guys like them in office.  I disagree with Jim Webb on a lot of things politically, but had I been a voter in Virginia, I would have voted for him merely on the strength of his character.  I would not give General Clark the same consideration.

You guys know that future President Lyndon Johnson received a Silver Star from General McArthur during WWII for being in a bomber that got attacked by Japanese fighters?  Second, a Silver Star was a boiler plate award for Company Commanders in Vietnam--serve a tour, get the medal, regardless of actions.  Similarly, the Bronze Star was given to Platoon Commanders as a boiler plate award.  You find Clark's Silver Star citation and find out if it was for a single combat action or a tour award.  If it was for a single action, I'll retract this particular comment.

Regardless, I feel like my criticisms are valid, because I was there, I've seen the guy operate, and wasn't impressed in the least.

[Elfie]

It is really too bad we don't have a 3rd choice, both parties are pathetic as hell and they get worse everyday.

So true......

[alskahawk]

My class lost a classmate and a class instructor in a T-38 simulated single engine heavyweight approach/landing. They died. Burned to death in the airplane at the end of the runway.

Were they "pretending to serve" since they were only in Air Training  Command? After all neither were war fighters; one was a student that hadn't won his wings. Pretenders?

Have you done any study on the the fatality rate in the F-102? Do you have any idea of the fatality rate in Bush's F-102 unit?

Do you have any idea at all why Tom Wolfe wrote this:


Have you served at all? Or are you just the typical cheap shot sniper?

Pleeze! Bush's F-102 unit? He barely got there before he got his father to use his influence to get him a early release. If your in flight training then you know that the military requires obligated service for flight training. And that includes the National Guard! And since your too young to remember let me remind you; During VietNam it was very difficult if not impossible to get into the National Guard unless your father was a CEO or a member of Congress.
 And if your in flight training you know that OCS, flight training and the other schools that a new officer goes through takes nearly 15 months. How long did Jr. serve? 15 months.

[alskahawk]

So true......

   Yup if only we had a 3rd choice. Once again we will have to choose the lesser of two evils.

[Yeager]

I thought Clark was right on the money.

I wouldn't put a single cent into that pony.

[Charon]

How come whenever a Vet comes out of the closet and announces he supports Obama the Republicans immediately try to attack his service record? It doesn't seem to matter how high of a rank the guy achieved, how many medals he won, anything-oftimes by people who never served themselves.

Yeah, I served too in my own limited way, and I never voted for "W" and don't particularly like McCain.

My opinion of VP / Pres wanna be Clark is based on it's on its own merits, as is my opinion of home town boy Obama. Silver lining, an Obama presidency means I get a new Senator!

The late David Hackworth didn't much like Clark either, nor did he care much for Ollie North at the other end of the spectrum. Perfumed princes. He beleived in warriors and honor and duty and resigned from the Army rather than play the political game when it got in the way of the first three.

Charon