Author Topic: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!  (Read 3646 times)

Offline SteveBailey

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2008, 11:13:15 PM »
That's what I said, Lazs.

Are you going to answer my questions Carrel or woudl that be inconvenient for your position?

Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2008, 11:25:07 PM »
So in my humble opinion the Second states we have a collective right to form militas rather than an individual right to own guns because the individual right to posess a gun was such a universal necessity of life during those times, like posessing a plow or an axe.

Quote
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The right to form militias is expressly limited by the 2nd with the phrase "well regulated"   well regulated means to me government control of the militia.

As far as gun ownership, it seems quite clear to me the framers were talking about the right of the people to arm themselves...  due to the necessity of the militia deal.

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Offline AKIron

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2008, 11:42:02 PM »
The ACLU started as a communist organization and though they had a falling out with Stalin have not swerved from their subversive agenda an inch unless it was expedient to their cause.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #63 on: July 07, 2008, 12:41:36 AM »
Trying to find the ACLU getting their just deserts but their forums are offline, how convenient. Looks like they only support 1st amendment when it's convenient and aligned with their agenda also. http://www.aclu.org/forums/index.html 
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Leslie

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #64 on: July 07, 2008, 02:02:14 AM »
There is evidence from correspondences of the time that the term "well regulated" as used in colonial times meant "properly adjusted/operating properly."  So it could be substituted...A properly operating militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.  In other words, the RKBA was already in place, and the militia would profit from this by government not infringing on the RKBA in any way.  Hence the militia would be well regulated and ready for action because it would have arms available at a moment's notice.

When you think about it, there weren't government regulations on everything like there are nowadays.  When people said regulation, they were referring to the degree of efficient functionality of something.  For example, the clock is well regulated and keeps good time.  I don't have to regulate (adjust) it often. [ Regulator clocks] Or, the speech that fellow made was a well regulated one.  He was very articulate.  If a rifle was well regulated, that meant it was a top notch rifle.  Not that it was registered and licensed and inspected.

The idea of government control and regulation is a modern one, and we see the term "regulation" differently.  A common error is we try to evaluate meanings using modern definitions instead of the language of the time.  History is re-written/re-interpreted because we tend to judge the past by today's standards. In this case we interpret an archaic term by today's meaning.  I believe the militia clause of the Second is a subordinate clause and is placed there as an example of the importance of an already existing right. 

The militia clause could have been left completely out and not changed the meaning of the Second Amendment.  A standing army would have been well regulated in the modern sense.  The founders didn't trust a standing army at the time.  Seems like the more "regulated" a militia would be, in the modern sense, the closer to a standing army it would become.  This is opposite to what the founders were trying to achieve.  The Third Amendment to the U.S. Constitution provides that “no Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.”



Les



Offline lazs2

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #65 on: July 07, 2008, 08:30:21 AM »
The supreme court rightly mentioned hunting and self defense.. the second mentions forming a militia.. all of these things are reasons why the government can't infringe on our god given right to keep and bear arms.   

They are simply examples.. not the operative part of the second.  the operative phrase is "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"  we always had the right.. we were born with it.. the second just makes sure that the government knows it.

There are about 700 letters on the ACLU blog...  about 0% of them support the ACLU position.. they are being lambasted... and rightly so..

As I said last year.. it will be fun to watch them and the agenda driven liberal democrats dragged out into the light for all to see....

Imagine the heart attacks in the ranks of the gun grabbers who gave all that money to osamabama and the democrats when the fool osamabama spouted off lately that he agreed with the individual rights thing and that the DC ban was "over the top"  the DC ban is exactly the goal that his supporters wanted..

Imagine the mail back and forth reasuring the sorros camp and the brady bunch that osamabama was just lying to us and that he still wants to ban every gun he can.

lazs

Offline midnight Target

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #66 on: July 07, 2008, 08:36:01 AM »
After further review....

I'd have to say I think the ACLU is wrong on this issue. This would be the 2nd time I disagreed with them. The 1st was when they refused to help Bakke in his age/reverse discrimination case against UC Davis.

Offline Toad

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #67 on: July 07, 2008, 08:38:31 AM »
Welcome! We hope you enjoy your stay here in the Light.   :salute
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #68 on: July 07, 2008, 08:43:21 AM »
mt.. that would make you one more of the 700 people who so far, have emailed them and are on the blog.   

They are really getting (rightly so) blasted for their position.. many have pointed out that they must either be anti American or be pandering to their main contributors.   I say both.

I love all the guys who are going to quit the ACLU and give their dues money to the NRA instead..

lazs

Offline Carrel

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #69 on: July 07, 2008, 12:29:07 PM »
Steve, I have no problem with law abiding citizens owning guns for whatever reason you want. Heck. I own guns and if they were banned then I'd choose to break the law by keeping them.

But in my opinion there was enough of a question of what the 2nd actually says- the addition of that militia thingie casts a shadow of doubt on the intention of the Framers.

As far as the ACLU goes, if you don't believe in what they're doing then don't send them your money.

Offline AKIron

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #70 on: July 07, 2008, 12:32:07 PM »
As far as the ACLU goes, if you don't believe in what they're doing then don't send them your money.

Does that mean you favor eliminating the law that allows them to sue the federal government at my expense?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Toad

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #71 on: July 07, 2008, 12:41:39 PM »
None are so blind as those that will not see.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline lazs2

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #72 on: July 07, 2008, 02:19:37 PM »
If you vote for osamabama or any of the gun grabbing democrats then you have to do so realizing that they think that you should not be allowed to have firearms.

They are afraid of you having guns.   there is a reason for that.

lazs

Offline alskahawk

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #73 on: July 07, 2008, 06:24:26 PM »
 At one time the ACLU was probably a good idea. But like other political bodies they seem to listen only to the extreme view and ignore the centrist view point. The trouble is who is out there to defend whats right when we can't trust our government? Their agenda(ACLU) is obviously quite flawed and inconsistant.

 Kind of like PETA. Probably was good at one time but they lost me when they started defending the rights of vermin(Rats!) and other pests.

Offline TwentyFo

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Re: The Fair and Balanced ACLU. These guys are SO funny!
« Reply #74 on: July 07, 2008, 06:48:20 PM »
If you vote for osamabama or any of the gun grabbing democrats then you have to do so realizing that they think that you should not be allowed to have firearms.

They are afraid of you having guns.   there is a reason for that.

lazs

I think you all are hypocrites.

Since being able to have a firearm is our God given right, then why regulate it? The only entitiy that should be able to regulate our firearms should be the individual. I don't want some socialist government nazis messing with what type of gun I have. I know that guns sometimes end up in the wrong hands, but so do other things. I want all automatic weapons legalized along with other explosive devices (I.E. Grenades, Mines, Etc.). I know I may come off as extreme, but I'M AN AMERICAN GOSH DANGIT!!!!!!!!!
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