Author Topic: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08  (Read 470 times)

Offline moose

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NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« on: July 05, 2008, 02:18:45 PM »
Hi,
The NTSB just released a preliminary report on the crash of a DeHavilland DHC-6. The pilot, who was tragically killed, happened to be a friend of mine. From reading the report what throws me off is the part of the report about the upper flight control lock. Having not flown this type of aircraft I have no idea what the control lock system looks like, but I find it hard to believe my friend would have failed to take it out before initating his takeoff roll.

However, the witness report of him not doing an engine runup is probably correct. I worked for Mark at a shuttle company here on cape and I remember a few times where he skipped his preflight to get in the air on time. I would venture a guess that in this case, engine failure on climbout is probably the cause.

Any insights?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080702X00969&key=1
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Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2008, 02:51:12 PM »
Hi,
The NTSB just released a preliminary report on the crash of a DeHavilland DHC-6. The pilot, who was tragically killed, happened to be a friend of mine. From reading the report what throws me off is the part of the report about the upper flight control lock. Having not flown this type of aircraft I have no idea what the control lock system looks like, but I find it hard to believe my friend would have failed to take it out before initating his takeoff roll.

However, the witness report of him not doing an engine runup is probably correct. I worked for Mark at a shuttle company here on cape and I remember a few times where he skipped his preflight to get in the air on time. I would venture a guess that in this case, engine failure on climbout is probably the cause.

Any insights?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080702X00969&key=1

first off....i'm sorry for the loss of your friend..........really i am.........

i hate to say this, but it does look like one of the control locks were left in. also wonder about the left engine.......i'll re-read it later when i'm not at work.
 you mentioned that he sometimes skipped his pre-flights...and it seems as if this may be what cost him his life. .....i NEVER get in an aircraft with someone who doesn't preflight. my own best friend very often skips them in fixed wing, although he never does in a helicopter.
 when i fly, my preflight are anally done. i'll never ever go in the air without one. it's my last chance to find something that may kill me.


<<S>>
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2008, 03:41:46 PM »
Sry to ear about the loss of your friend, and a fellow cargo pilot. Not being the one to judge, I fear that your friend might indeed have a brain fart with one of the control locks. I've witnessed the omission of the control locks several times, including myself. On the Metro that I fly the most, you cannot forget it, as it's necessary to remove it to start the engines ... now that's a clever design. :pray

As far as following the checklists, it's always an easy one to blame, especially when you are a low time pilot that flies a couple of times a months. When you fly everyday, several flights a day, you rely more on your flow than on your checklists. Before the rightgeous god pilots wanabees out there flame the "priofessional" in "professional pilot" in me, I do religiously do checklist when :

* I fly a plane just out of maintenance (those guys always monkey with switches with never use)
* I fly with a F/O
* I fly a type of plane I haven't flown recently.

Again sry to hear about the demise of your friend, I personaly definitly don't blame his proficiency :salute
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2008, 03:44:24 PM »
Hi,
The NTSB just released a preliminary report on the crash of a DeHavilland DHC-6. The pilot, who was tragically killed, happened to be a friend of mine. From reading the report what throws me off is the part of the report about the upper flight control lock. Having not flown this type of aircraft I have no idea what the control lock system looks like, but I find it hard to believe my friend would have failed to take it out before initating his takeoff roll.

However, the witness report of him not doing an engine runup is probably correct. I worked for Mark at a shuttle company here on cape and I remember a few times where he skipped his preflight to get in the air on time. I would venture a guess that in this case, engine failure on climbout is probably the cause.

Any insights?

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20080702X00969&key=1
i just re-read the report.

again, i am very sorry for your loss. i know how hard it is to lose a friend.

The accident flight was scheduled to depart Hyannis at 0900. About 0800, the pilot checked in with the operator via telephone in order to provide the flight's fuel and alternate destination information. 0956, the pilot contacted air traffic control and requested clearance to taxi for departure. After taxiing, the flight was cleared to take off from runway 24 at 1000.

he was running late. if his flight was supposed to depart at 9am, he should've already been to the airport at 8am.
he probably figured that since he hasn't had any problems in the recent past, that it's be ok if he skipped everything ""just this once""

A witness located just outside the airport perimeter fence, and near the arrival end of runway 24, observed the airplane as it taxied. According to the witness, he found it strange that the airplane did not stop and "rev up" its engines as he thought airplanes normally did, but instead taxied on the taxiway parallel to the runway and then made a 180-degree turn onto the runway without stopping.

if he skipped the run up, i think it would be safe to assume he never checked fuel valves, control continuity, or fuel level.......


[bThe airplane then initiated the takeoff roll, and the witness noted that the engine sound did not seem to increase. The witness also thought that the airplane "must have been empty," since it took off quickly, and was airborne within 100 yards of the start of the takeoff roll. As soon as the airplane became airborne, it began a steep left bank. The witness initially thought the airplane was turning for a normal departure, but because the turn was initiated so low and the bank became so steep, he then thought that the airplane might "catch a wing" on the ground. The airplane disappeared from his view behind trees, and shortly thereafter the witness heard the sounds of impact.
][/b]

this part tells a lot. the engines didn't sound right. possibly the left one wasn't making proper rpm or power(considering the left roll).
 it left the ground way too early. this is probably due to the control lock. later in the report, it was mentioned that 2 of the control lock pins were sheared. he probably realized his mistake as soon as the wheels were off the ground. he probably managed to shear them trying to fight the controls.

weather report from the report shows an absolutley beautiful day for flying.


The pilot held an airline transport pilot certificate with a rating for airplane multiengine land, and a commercial pilot certificate with a rating for airplane single engine land. According to the operator, the pilot had accumulated 3,607 total hours of flight experience, 1,927 total hours of multiengine flight experience, and 99 hours of flight experience in the accident airplane make and model.


this is something my CFI keeps drumming into my head. the highest accident rates are pilots with less than 500 hours, and pilots with over 1,000(the top number there may be off). he constantly reminds me that higher time pilots tend to get complacent. kind of like my friend(who i seriously believe i will lose to an aircraft accident...he almost did kill himself handpropping a cessna already). they think that because they've ""seen it all""" that ""it can't happen to them""

Examination of the cockpit control column, which had separated from its mount and was found in the debris area, revealed that the upper flight control lock was still attached to the column by its removable pin. The pin attaching the upper control lock to the control column remained tethered to upper flight control lock by a steel cable. However, the pins from the two other flight control lock cables were missing, and the cables exhibited pin retaining end failures consistent with overstress. The instrument panel-mounted attach tab for the upper control lock was fractured, and the portion of the tab that attached to the control lock was not located. The lower flight control lock was found inside an unsecured metal tube that was lying next to the right seat track of the pilot's seat. Both the upper and lower flight control locks were retained for further examination.


 this tells it all. the pin was still in. there is no way it was going to get in there during the crash. and there was no way someone was going to place it in after the crash.

Both engines were dislocated from their mounts, but the right engine remained attached to its nacelle by oil lines. Both engines were retained for further examination. One blade from the right propeller was separated at the hub, and was found about 275 feet beyond the main wreckage along the wreckage path. This blade exhibited severe tip curling and burnishing of the blade face. All three blades from the right propeller exhibited s-bending, chordwise scratching, and leading edge gouging. One blade from the left propeller exhibited slight forward bending, while the remaining two were bent at a point about one-fourth of their span.


really seems as if the left engine wasn't running...or had cut out on take off..........

now....again, pleasepleaseplease forgive me for sounding so cold. but this was another case of ""gottagetthereitis"""

the pilot thought he could skip his preflight this time. had he doen it, he'd have pulled all the lock pins. he might've caught the lack of power in the left engine. either way, he'd be alive, and you'd still have your friend.

 i truely hate seeing accidents like these.

again, i am so very sorry for your loss, but you did ask for insights.

 :salute :salute

ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2008, 03:48:49 PM »
Sry to ear about the loss of your friend, and a fellow cargo pilot. Not being the one to judge, I fear that your friend might indeed have a brain fart with one of the control locks. I've witnessed the omission of the control locks several times, including myself. On the Metro that I fly the most, you cannot forget it, as it's necessary to remove it to start the engines ... now that's a clever design. :pray

As far as following the checklists, it's always an easy one to blame, especially when you are a low time pilot that flies a couple of times a months. When you fly everyday, several flights a day, you rely more on your flow than on your checklists. Before the rightgeous god pilots wanabees out there flame the "priofessional" in "professional pilot" in me, I do religiously do checklist when :

* I fly a plane just out of maintenance (those guys always monkey with switches with never use)
* I fly with a F/O
* I fly a type of plane I haven't flown recently.

Again sry to hear about the demise of your friend, I personaly definitly don't blame his proficiency :salute

i'm one of those low timers(197 total time, 169 or so PIC).....and yes, i do follow the checklists religiously....and i don't judge anyone either......but i won;t get in an airplane without doing one either.
 hell, even DOING my check lists, i've had total electrical system failure at night....and a partial engine failure on takeoff. both came out ok thanks to my cfi using me for his amusement :rock

evfen in CAP, we're never in such a rush that we think of leaving the ground without a complete preflight. usually the co-pilot calls out the items, then watches/listens for the pilots response.


<<S>>
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 05:34:24 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
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Offline moose

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2008, 04:35:56 PM »
Hey, no worries guys. I know the writing was on the wall, it just seemed strange to me that he'd miss something so simple as a control lock. I would assume then without an engine failure the aircraft might have stayed stable enough for him to remove the lock and continue his climbout?
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Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2008, 05:33:41 PM »
Hey, no worries guys. I know the writing was on the wall, it just seemed strange to me that he'd miss something so simple as a control lock. I would assume then without an engine failure the aircraft might have stayed stable enough for him to remove the lock and continue his climbout?

no, it wouldn't have. it would've had too much climb too early...it still would've stalled.


this video...again, i do apologize if this bothers you......but watch this video. this pilot had left the gust locks installed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idS-ywqh5jc

 had he realized the problem before wheels up, he'd have been ok....

hell, i had a loud "BOOM"" Inside of a c172n i was flying..i had rotated the nose wheel off the ground, and just as i felt the mains lift i heard this noise. i made emergency call as i chopped throttle to idle, and braked. the airplane had just set herself back on the ground for me, and when i got to the parking area, the mechanic, and most from inside the FBO had come out to see what was wrong.

as it turned out, the seat on the copilots side wasn't locked(unoccupied) and it hit a lockpoint as i rotated. it still scared the watermelon outta me though.

<<S>> :salute
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Offline crockett

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2008, 05:57:24 PM »
Sorry about your friend..

This topic got me interested so I looked up a crash my cousin was killed in, and I was almost a passenger on the plane as well. A job and having to work saved me and homework saved another guy.

Anyway it was a single engine seaplane a Lake LA-4. I was always told the pilot banked the plane too hard on take off and the torque of the engine flipped the airplane upside down causing them to nose into the treeline inverted. I had never read the accident report but seems it it saying the plane clipped a tree.

Am I reading that in they are blaming the crash on hitting a tree? 

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X05694&ntsbno=ATL96FA084&akey=1
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Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2008, 06:32:44 PM »
Not an expert in sea planes, but I doubt that a 200HP engine will produce enought torque to fly the sea plane upside down. My guess would be that they didn't see the tree on take off/landing ... or just couldn't clear it. :frown:
Dat jugs bro.

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Offline crockett

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2008, 06:54:37 PM »
If that's the case then it's likely they just couldn't clear them, the trees were part of the shoreline with lots of brush and other trees, so no way they didn't see it.
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Offline DYNAMITE

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2008, 07:02:15 PM »
I've got no insight Moose... I just wanted to stop by and say sorry for the loss of your friend  :salute

Offline eskimo2

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 07:02:43 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong: check lists came about in the first place because of this exact cause of accident in the B-17 prototype. 

Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 07:10:35 PM »
Sorry about your friend..

This topic got me interested so I looked up a crash my cousin was killed in, and I was almost a passenger on the plane as well. A job and having to work saved me and homework saved another guy.

Anyway it was a single engine seaplane a Lake LA-4. I was always told the pilot banked the plane too hard on take off and the torque of the engine flipped the airplane upside down causing them to nose into the treeline inverted. I had never read the accident report but seems it it saying the plane clipped a tree.

Am I reading that in they are blaming the crash on hitting a tree? 

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X05694&ntsbno=ATL96FA084&akey=1

with 200hp, and only the pilot and cfi, it's highly unlikely that they "couldn't" clear the trees. it does however sem as if that is the cause. the problem, is that it was over 6,000 feet away from them when they started their takeoff run. the report quoted the POH as stating that it only needed 1,275ft to clear a 50ft tall obstacle.

it could be possible that once they were airborn, the cfi told him to level for speed. then for some reason, they were both "inside" the cockpit?
 this one's a toughie.

thankfully, you weren;t onboard. sorry for your loss too..........
 
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Offline CAP1

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 07:13:37 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong: check lists came about in the first place because of this exact cause of accident in the B-17 prototype. 
not sure if it was because of a b17 crash, but i'm sure it was due to domething crashing.

my checklist's are my bible when i'm in the air. hopefuly they always will be.


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Offline GrimCH

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Re: NTSB Crash Report, KHYA 18-June-08
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 07:25:41 PM »
No comment on what happened..

Sorry for the loss of your friend.
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