Cheating - ** Need for VOX Change **"High Tech Please Read"**

[bongaroo]

I wonder how many resets it will take for people to realize that you don't really "win" anything?

[ROX]

I wonder how many resets it will take for people to realize that you don't really "win" anything?

You are always right Mr Hippie Lettuce man...Bragging rights means absolutely nothing, as do 25 free perkies in every category for taking up a perk ride every now and again...It' all means nothing....please feel free to return to your bong.



EDIT:  BTW: We knights don't win resets very often, about as often as lunar eclipses, so when we do it's a nice surprise.




ROX

[Guppy35]

You are always right Mr Hippie Lettuce man...Bragging rights means absolutely nothing, as do 25 free perkies in every category for taking up a perk ride every now and again...It' all means nothing....please feel free to return to your bong.




ROX

I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the post before Bongaroo

[ROX]

Pluck, I'm glad to see you got it out.  If none of what I've said applies to you, then there's absolutely nonthing for you to be offended about.  If you were part of the problem, then the shoe fits.  Personally, I don't remember at any time you being part of the problem.

Fact is the folks who are part of the problem know very well who they are.


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Guppy, 1 day would be a decent start.  If someone is going to switch with evil intent being stuck there for 24 hours and not able to make a country change might make some of them think twice. They should be marooned there for a day if not longer.

If you really feel that "it's all about the fight not the war"--why not just stay in the Dueling Arena?  That should be the place you are most happy...no war, no missions, just "good fights".






BTW:  It's great to see this finally being discussed civilly.  





ROX

[ROX]

I'd be curious as to your thoughts on the post before Bongaroo

Sorry, I'm not understanding this statement (question)?






ROX

[Guppy35]

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Guppy, 1 day would be a decent start.  If someone is going to switch with evil intent being stuck there for 24 hours and not able to make a country change might make some of them think twice. They should be marooned there for a day if not longer.

If you really feel that "it's all about the fight not the war"--why not just stay in the Dueling Arena?  That should be the place you are most happy...no war, no missions, just "good fights".


BTW:  It's great to see this finally being discussed civilly.  

ROX

OK to clarify.  

-Do you believe the MA is in fact meant for fighting the 'war' and it really shouldn't be a place for folks who enjoy air combat to play?  
-Does that mean you would divide the community into the "war" vs Air Combat?
-Do you believe that side balancing should not be considered?  
-How would you manage the lack of balance in numbers?


Bottom line for me is I like the fight.  When I log on and I'm on the high numbers team and all I see are large green bars hitting bases, I'd rather be flying against them then with them.  I have folks I enjoy flying with and against in each 'country'.  Defending a base against the crowd is far more enjoyable for me then capping a base while the vulch is in place or troops are on the way.  I don't fly perk planes so points don't really concern me and in all honesty one base looks like another, and I couldn't tell you what map I'm on when I'm flying.

Again, Scenario flying is a different deal, and I think that those of us 'furballers' that fly scenarios have shown we can do the mission with the best of them if need be.  But the MA isn't a scenario for me so my flying is different there.

I believe the MA is where the AH community meets.  I believe it can contain many styles of play.  To enforce a 24 hour time limit on side switching would support one style of play and negate others.  I don't believe that's what HTC nor many of us in the community want.  

How does it support the community if the goal is to force it apart?

[yanksfan]

Pluck, I'm glad to see you got it out.  If none of what I've said applies to you, then there's absolutely nonthing for you to be offended about.  If you were part of the problem, then the shoe fits.  Personally, I don't remember at any time you being part of the problem.

Fact is the folks who are part of the problem know very well who they are.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guppy, 1 day would be a decent start.  If someone is going to switch with evil intent being stuck there for 24 hours and not able to make a country change might make some of them think twice. They should be marooned there for a day if not longer.

If you really feel that "it's all about the fight not the war"--why not just stay in the Dueling Arena?  That should be the place you are most happy...no war, no missions, just "good fights".

BTW:  It's great to see this finally being discussed civilly.  

ROX

The problem with a 24 hour side switch is that it would guarentee permanent imbalance. The sides would never equal or come close.

 I have been with the 80th for just over a month and I can tell you for sure there is not a single person in the squad that I have seen that cares for anything other then finding a fair fight. We switch to the low side on a regular basis and are very aware of the current country numbers at all times, the only thing that slows a switch to the low side is if there are squadies that have to wait to be able to switch.

As far as missions go, they are here simply to start a fight and serve no other purpose, as do countrys, the war, winning the war, base taking or anything associated with it. personally I prefer the DA, my squadies don't, I would rather fly with the squad in the MA so I do when I can. frankly the MA has become a pool of overbearing ego and a constant stream of whineing.

We are not toolshedders, but it's ok for those that are, I see no practicle purpose for threads such as these, you play your game we'll play ours, if our paths cross on occasion thats part of the game, you win some you lose some thats the way the game is, thats the way all games are.

I see no need for accusations of cheat or slimey game play, I see no need for the constant use of the word liar, there is no excuse for making personal attacks on anyone, by anyone, piticularly if you will not name names when you make the attack. throwing insults around does nothing but make a bad situation worse.

And all this as if posting anything to the BBs would change anything anyway.

just my .02

Don

[ROX]

(Sorry the reply looks like this.  It was the only way to answer and have it make sense as text)


OK to clarify.  

-Do you believe the MA is in fact meant for fighting the 'war' and it really shouldn't be a place for folks who enjoy air combat to play?
 
               Not entirely.  To ignore that a base taking-strat bombing war is not going on around you seems a little crazy.  That would be like
                   scheduling 100 boxing matches in public in downtown Fallusia.  The MA IS "fighting the war".  How I believe HT set it up is
                   that we're "fighting the war".  Seems he wanted to make it as real as possible.  If folks want to ignore the war is going on around them
                   just go off and fight random "duel" type situations inside that war they can do that as well.  I am one of those players who thinks
                   and plays strategically. I can just look at a map and see where the most strategic and vulnerable targets are. 
 
                   I'm not like you, I'm not a person who is really good in a specific fighter because I have never taken the time to learn that. And that's
                   cool if you have.  For people like me, you have to be a jack-of-all trades, gvs, bombers, dive-bombers, buff driving.  If folks want to
                   spend their $15 on just doing air combat in MA...knock themselves out.  If they REALLY want to ignore the war--set up a permanent
                   tent in the Dueling Arena. 

-Does that mean you would divide the community into the "war" vs Air Combat?

                We already are. Take a look at these boards.  There are folks who are strategic and take bases/bomb strats and win resets, and
                    there is another segment that just wants to furball, and there's yet another set that enjoys the meatgrinder that is Tank Town, then
                    there is yet another segment that does most of their talking in gv's ( a la LTARS).
                   
-Do you believe that side balancing should not be considered?  

                 Why?  That's why they invented ENY.  While ENY isn't perfect (and personally I don't like it) it's not going away.  Besides as knights
                     we are usually outnumbered anyway.  If the folks who say "I always fly for the side with the lowest numbers" were honest, they
                     would primarily be flying knights, but they don't.  Bishops can have 25+ more people than us but you'll see them logged in as bishops
                     most of the time...and only rarely rooks. 

-How would you manage the lack of balance in numbers?

                 I wouln't.  I couldn't.  People are people.  Can you possibly balance the number of Republicans & Democrats & Independants?  Face it
                     many players don't WANT to be the underdogs, so they rarely fly knights.  So you have a constant ebb & flow of players between
                     bishops & rooks for the most numbers and knights get the rest.  It has actually been a little better lately for the knights and I actually
                     saw a couple of days in the last 3 weekends where knights had the most.  I've seen where rooks had 128, bishops had 124 and
                     knights had 89.  Both sides are blitzkrieging the knight front and there are two rook/bish base front bases blinking.  Where were the
                     "I always go to the lowest numbers side" people then??

                     


Bottom line for me is I like the fight.  When I log on and I'm on the high numbers team and all I see are large green bars hitting bases, I'd rather be flying against them then with them.  I have folks I enjoy flying with and against in each 'country'.  Defending a base against the crowd is far more enjoyable for me then capping a base while the vulch is in place or troops are on the way.  I don't fly perk planes so points don't really concern me and in all honesty one base looks like another, and I couldn't tell you what map I'm on when I'm flying.

                 Then you'd absolutely, positively LOVE flying knights for awhile, I sincerely invite you to do so as I can't ever remember seeing you
                     in green.  Can't say I have ever seen more than a couple of your squaddies that ever do either. 

Again, Scenario flying is a different deal, and I think that those of us 'furballers' that fly scenarios have shown we can do the mission with the best of them if need be.  But the MA isn't a scenario for me so my flying is different there.

                 Scenerios, snapshots, and especially FSO are awesome events--especially the historically accurate ones.  It's one of the few times when
                     you have to strap in, throw on your game face and be as professional as possible.  MA is Disney World compared to that, and Tank
                     Town is the log slide rides.  Yipeeeeee.

I believe the MA is where the AH community meets.  I believe it can contain many styles of play.  

                 Can't agree more, and it already does

To enforce a 24 hour time limit on side switching would support one style of play and negate others.  I don't believe that's what HTC nor many of us in the community want.
 
                 Many?  the vast MAJORITY of the community doesn't even READ these forums much less post here.  Heck, if the truth be known these
                     boards probably have more non-paying/non-playing people posting than $15 a month customers.  And that doesn't even include
                     the iceberg of non-English speakers who subscribe. 

                     They'd have to do it like a vote for new planes on-line.  When a HTC customer logs in to play there's a MOTD where they could vote yes
                     or no. Otherwise you would never get an accurate and fair input of the REAL community.

                     "support one style of play and negate others?"  There are currently two tools in the evil player's toolbox....the ability to side switch
                      almost at will and cross country PM.  I say if you have something to say to someone in another country, do it on 200 where everyone
                      can see it.  If you want to side switch PICK a country and spend at least 24 hours there.  A mandatory waiting time frame would
                      end a lot of this crap we have going on now.  Just how flighty does someone have to be to swap countries every hour?  Tells me
                      it's not for "good fights" or even to "even the sides"...tells me they're up to no good.

                      If somebody's style of play is to swap sides and PM back information, that's pretty slimey.  A lot of us would like to negate that.


                      And...just a kind bit of advice to evil and non-evil side hopers alike, it's just like I told Lusche.  You may not realize it, and I'm
                      probably the first to tell you, but if you side hop on a regular basis, and if one minute they are winging with a person and  5 minutes
                      later you come over the horizon and kill them, you've pretty much thrown any semblance of loyalty or respect for you right out the
                      window.  You are George Washington one minute and Benidict Arnold the next.
                     
                      They'll tell squaddies you can't be trusted on red text...but they won't tell you.

                      They'll PM a friendly squad CO, but they won't tell you.

                      You become the guy at the office with the used toilet paper stuck to his shoe.  Everybody is whispering about it behind your back
                      but they won't tell you.

                      Go to some country--PICK ONE.

                      Rotate every tour or every quarter, people respect that.  The squads that do that get respect for it.

                      If trust & respect do not matter for you, then this whole thread is worthless information.  I hope your not married if you feel that way.
                      Our 25th (31st of being together) anniversary is in October....trust, respect.

                      Don't you want to go to the CON or some local AH and know you have integrity as a player?  Sure, the Finns got hammered and
                      played grabbehind in the sauna, but at least they knew each other had integrity as a player. 


                  Sure, it's a game.  We're all cartoon pilots in a cartoon world and nothing really matters.           Or does it?

                      How we carry ourselves in the forums and in-game says a lot about our character and who we are in RL.  Do you want that perception
                      to be that you can't be trusted?  I'm not talking about rock solid loyalty to a chess piece.  Just because I do it I don't expect anyone
                      (except my squaddies have agreed to because of all the inter-squad alliances we have forged) to do it. 

                      Sure, it's your $15 a month.  Play the "style of play" however you want.  Just don't get on the forums and demand loyalty, trust
                      or respect if you haven't earned it in the game.




                      ROX
                     

[ROX]

The problem with a 24 hour side switch is that it would guarentee permanent imbalance. The sides would never equal or come close.

A HUGE    there Don.

There's always an imbalance now anyway.

Take any given weekend during prime time North America time and show me where Rooks 128/Bishops 124/Knights 89 has any semblance of balance?

Where are the guys who say they are sworn to keep the game balanced?  Their Bishops.





ROX

[yanksfan]

A HUGE    there Don.

There's always an imbalance now anyway.

Take any given weekend during prime time North America time and show me where Rooks 128/Bishops 124/Knights 89 has any semblance of balance?

Where are the guys who say they are sworn to keep the game balanced?  Their Bishops.





ROX

Not us, if it were like that we would be Knit. but if it took 24 hours it would be that out of balance for at least that long

[Masherbrum]

Rooks are ALWAYS your example of Having numbers.   Sorry, but it just is NOT true.  

[yanksfan]

I won't say that I am in the ma everynight, i'm not, but, I have seen each and every side have numbers at one time or another, the knit being out numbered all the time thing is no longer true, if it were the 80th would fly knit for the most part.

We fly the low side, it's what we do, we don't spy, we don't care, beleive me or not.

Don

[Vudak]

Rox, I'm still not understanding what problem changing side switching to something (IMO rediculous) like 24 hours is really going to fix?

We live in the age of telecommunications!

Telephones, AIM, teamspeak, email, these very bulletin boards, all can be used while you're in the game!

It sucks that you have to deal with spies now and then.  But your suggestion is not going to alleviate it one bit.

I understand that you're frustrated, and I'm sorry that some people are driving you nuts.  I can definately see how you'd call them immature griefers...  But try to look at the big picture here.  Take a step back and take a good look.

Your proposition is not an idea that will fix anything you want it to.

[Masherbrum]

I won't say that I am in the ma everynight, i'm not, but, I have seen each and every side have numbers at one time or another, the knit being out numbered all the time thing is no longer true, if it were the 80th would fly knit for the most part.

We fly the low side, it's what we do, we don't spy, we don't care, beleive me or not.

Don

Bozo!   

[crazierthanu]

Now rox is the one doing the roasting.