Motorcycle Enthusiasts-Horrible Accident

[CAP1]

Pesonally, I've broken my leg 2x on a motorcylce. That's enough for me. By the way both times were my fault.
The only reason I haven't been hurt worse is because of good drivers. Thank Goodness.

However, I hold no grudge against those who like the open road and bugs in their teeth. There's a lot of freedom in that.

hate bugs in my teeth...thats' why i wear a full face helmet

[sluggish]

i kind of think this part may be aimed at one of my comments. when i stated that there should be re-teting every 2 years, think about it before you say it won't work.  right this second, if an instructor got into your car with you, and you drove as you normally do, would you pass? be honest. 99% would not. because they/we all know that once we get our lisence, we keep it unles we accumulate toooo many points. we let bad habits form. we get complacent. we decide that ""it"" can never happen to us.

 now imagine that you KNOW that if you fail that test in a year, that you lose your lisence till you manage to pass it. now you're gonna be more ""on the ball"" about not letting bad habits develop. you're gonna pay much much more attention to what's going on around ya. just look at most private pilots. we don't let bad habits develop. i think the worst one i'vd gotten, is that i fly my pattern a little sloppy. my CFI generally corrects this with the engine failure routine when he's with me.

 i know this wouldn't stop the drunk drivers, it wouldn't stop the guy tht just shot a needle full of some watermelon into his arm, or the gal that just snorted  god knows how much watermelon up her nose........but it WILL stop the stupid drivers. it will stop the complacent ones, the guys shaving or reading their newspaper while they shave at 75mph. it will stop the girl doing her mascare or eyeliner in stop and go traffic. it will stop the assssholes that think the amber light means to floor it so they don't have to stop.

 it's not the end all/cure all, but i think it wold greatly help.


apologies for the long post

<<S>>

What's with this WE crap?  You need to speak for yourself.  What you have described above tells me YOU are the problem.  To lump everyone else in with your complacency is wrong.  You are rationalizing that everyone is complacent so you should be foregiven, but a refresher course every two years will fix the problem. BS.  YOU need to realize that everytime YOU get behind the wheel YOU are operating a 3000 pound bullet.

In the future try not to speak for me.

[CAP1]

What's with this WE crap?  You need to speak for yourself.  What you have described above tells me YOU are the problem.  To lump everyone else in with your complacency is wrong.  You are rationalizing that everyone is complacent so you should be foregiven, but a refresher course every two years will fix the problem. BS.  YOU need to realize that everytime YOU get behind the wheel YOU are operating a 3000 pound bullet.

In the future try not to speak for me.

uujmmmmm......bonehead? i DO realize i'm operatinmg a 3000 pound bullet. i ride. i've been driving for 20 some odd years. with the exception fo 1 when i was oung and stupid, all accidents ive had were the other persons fault. including the headon that totaled my 12 second mustang. i almost managed to avoid that one, as i have avoided so many before. i, unlike the masses, know EXACTLY what my car, or my truck can do in any given weather, or traffic condition. i know how far i can push them, and where they'll let me down, or break loose and give me trouble.

 when i say "we" i meant drivers in general. next time i'll make sure to say "you", ok?

[lazs2]

you are taking a chance when you ride.

It is fun to ride.. it is a rush you can't get hiding under the bed all day.

You take your chances.

A helmet takes about 50% of the fun away from riding and may save your life once in a million times.

helmets..even the best.. affect your hearing and your vision to some extent.. that is not important in a race.. more so on the street.   

It should be no ones business if you take such a risk unless you are endangering them.. helmets may cause you to not be as good a rider but.. only a fraction most likely   Who knows how much reduced vision and hearing had to do with the wreck in question or.. the fact that most people won't look around as much while wearing a helmet?

I really don't care if anyone disaproves of my risk taking.   I hate every busybody on the planet who would save me from myself.

lazs

[Vudak]

we also know it's not the fault of the biker in most cases.
 it's usually a car driver that ""didn't see the bike"", or they just don't think about the limitations we have on bikes.

I drive about 50,000 miles a year +/-.

I've seen FAR more bikers doing stupid things than drivers.

This is interesting when you consider the area I drive only sees bikers half the year (New England winters & springs aren't always that great for them).

If the biker's doing something stupid and unexpected you can't really blame the car driver for not seeing him or not knowing the limitations.  Sounds to me more like the biker doesn't realize the limitations and isn't doing what he has to do to stay safe.

When I'm in a car, and I'm around cargo trucks, I'm on full alert.  I realize they can't see me in many places, and that if I am going to pass them (legally), I'm going to be taking chances and need to be prepared to take serious evasive manuevering (Floor it, horn, drift to side and ride the raver saver).  I also know I have to take the situation into account (Do I have enough room between me and the car in front of me in my lane to floor it if I have to, or am I going to get stuck and have to brake/pray for the horn?), and other factors such as road conditions.

I don't blame truckers for not being able to see me. I don't see why bikers blame cars for not being able to see them.  It's a fact of the road we all need to take into account if we want to get to our destination safely.

----

In the accident that started this thread, it seems pretty clear that the car driver is completely legally at fault.  Possibly intoxicated (could just be shock, but sure sounds like intoxicated - I'll wait for the lab results), and certainly ran a red light.

On the other hand, the fact that out of the FOUR bikers, not ONE noticed her, is some pretty inexcusably crappy SA.  And it cost them.

----

And Moot, if you think all drivers in the US are sluggish...  Try driving around in Boston.  You'll think they're wild banshees from hell

[CAP1]

I drive about 50,000 miles a year +/-.

I've seen FAR more bikers doing stupid things than drivers.


If the biker's doing something stupid and unexpected you can't really blame the car driver for not seeing him or not knowing the limitations.  Sounds to me more like the biker doesn't realize the limitations and isn't doing what he has to do to stay safe.

 I don't see why bikers blame cars for not being able to see them.  It's a fact of the road we all need to take into account if we want to get to our destination safely.

----

In the accident that started this thread, it seems pretty clear that the car driver is completely legally at fault.  Possibly intoxicated (could just be shock, but sure sounds like intoxicated - I'll wait for the lab results), and certainly ran a red light.

On the other hand, the fact that out of the FOUR bikers, not ONE noticed her, is some pretty inexcusably crappy SA.  And it cost them.

----

And Moot, if you think all drivers in the US are sluggish...  Try driving around in Boston.  You'll think they're wild banshees from hell

i think bikers do that....and me too.....because most car drivers don't "expect" to see anything other than another car, thus they don't see us. people in general only see what they want to see. if they're not activly looking ofr a bike in their mirror, then they'll most likely not see it.

 i do see some bikers do stupid things. it seems that mostly the crotch rocket riders are guilty of this. most cruiser riders, ride nromally although there are exceptions to both.

as for more bikers doing stupid things? do you ever see a biker doing makeup at 80? or reading a paper? or talking on a cell phone? now i know you're thinking about them weaving in traffic.....but cars do this too...much more...i see it on 295 all the time. i never see a biker tailgating anything, although i quite often see cars tailgating everything...including bikers(when i get a guy too close to me, i just slow down till he goes by me........)

i do however agree with you that one of them should've noticed that car speding towards the intersection. i know i would have. most of my friends would have. that does not however alleviate the blame from her. especially if the light truely was red on her side for a full 3 seconds....that's like an eternity for something like that.

[moot]

Vudak, what I said was definitely pigeon holing, but on the whole (no pun) it's pretty accurate.  One or a few towns will be exceptions, that's normal Mav says he's been to Canada and Mexico, but it's not surprising they're similar.  If he'd spent at least a few years in Europe and elsewhere I think he'd say something else.  I learned to drive in Paris rush hour, on a stick shift - I was on that Champ Elysees round-about in the first 15min.

The four bikers in the OP might as well have gotten on their bikes blind folded, yep...

[Vudak]

i do however agree with you that one of them should've noticed that car speding towards the intersection. i know i would have. most of my friends would have. that does not however alleviate the blame from her. especially if the light truely was red on her side for a full 3 seconds....that's like an eternity for something like that.

I just want to make clear I'm not trying to alleviate any of the blame for the driver...  She's definately at fault.

I also agree with you that it's normally the crotch rockets that are doing the dumb things I observe.

What I'm not agreeing with is that talking on a cellphone while driving and doing a wheelie on a highway between two cars is in the same level of stupidity

[CAP1]

What I'm not agreeing with is that talking on a cellphone while driving and doing a wheelie on a highway between two cars is in the same level of stupidity

POINT taken

[Yeager]

A helmet takes about 50% of the fun away from riding and may save your life once in a million times.

I was driving behind a guy who got his front wheel caught on an improvised shoulder and drove his motor bike up off the road through a steel support cable and then into a large steel pole as he was going about 40 miles an hour.  He was going forward one moment and as he smashed into the pole he was thrown instantly to the right about twenty feet where he landed.  He hit that pole straight on.  He was wearing a full head helmet.  The visor had been broken completely off by the impact and the body of the helmit was split down the center exposing the white inner shell of the helmet.  The guy was knocked out cold and groaning from the gut but appeared to be alive and in one piece.  His head was protected from what would most likely have been a skull splattering life ending event.  I read about the collision the following day and the piece explained he was expected to recover.

Im guessing this was a one in a million save.

[CAP1]

I was driving behind a guy who got his front wheel caught on an improvised shoulder and drove his motor bike up off the road through a steel support cable and then into a large steel pole as he was going about 40 miles an hour.  He was going forward one moment and as he smashed into the pole he was thrown instantly to the right about twenty feet where he landed.  He hit that pole straight on.  He was wearing a full head helmet.  The visor had been broken completely off by the impact and the body of the helmit was split down the center exposing the white inner shell of the helmet.  The guy was knocked out cold and groaning from the gut but appeared to be alive and in one piece.  His head was protected from what would most likely have been a skull splattering life ending event.  I read about the collision the following day and the piece explained he was expected to recover.

Im guessing this was a one in a million save.

helmets are just like any other safety device. they can save you, and sometimes they may not.
 i also agree with those that want them to be the choice of the rider. my personal choice is to wear mine. but it should be MY choice, not some governing body's choice for me.

 if you choose not to wear your helmet then who the hell am i to tell you otherwise?

anyway..... i believe in em, and wear em. besides......it keeps the bugs outta my teeth!!

[Yeager]

 if you choose not to wear your helmet then who the hell am i to tell you otherwise?

The big complaint in my state was with the high number of catostrophic brain injuries experienced by crashed motorcyclists and the fact that the taxpayers were paying out tens of millions $$$ for the long term care of brain injured motorcyclists.  Helmets are required in my state, have been for 20 years or so. 

I dont like the mandating of this sort of thing.  I think the state should have provided an exemption where people can waive the helmet requirement if they agree to give up state funded long term care as a result of permamnent brain injury due to motorcycle accident.  Donate those organs instead.

[lasersailor184]

The big complaint in my state was with the high number of catostrophic brain injuries experienced by crashed motorcyclists and the fact that the taxpayers were paying out tens of millions $$$ for the long term care of brain injured motorcyclists.  Helmets are required in my state, have been for 20 years or so. 

I dont like the mandating of this sort of thing.  I think the state should have provided an exemption where people can waive the helmet requirement if they agree to give up state funded long term care as a result of permamnent brain injury due to motorcycle accident.  Donate those organs instead.

Or you can solve that problem all together by removing a socialist health care system.  If the state won't pay for it at all, who cares if they wear a helmet or not?

[Gh0stFT]

beside the bugs, i just once driven a Motorcycle without a helmet,
after 10minutes i was done, tears and my skin felt like it was shaved with
a knife. I'm talking about speeds from 120-250km/h (old Kawasaki Ninja)
so a helmet was more then a must for me, at least the way i loved to ride Motorcycles,
...long time ago btw.

[lazs2]

yeager... the same excuse was used here to stir up the hysterical busy body women and womenly men to get em to give up their freedom.. the legions of brain dead bikers in a comma... lying in state for decades...  sucking up health care tax money...

When asked to give the numbers and examples... oddly.. no one such example could be found of a brain dead biker being kept alive on public funds.    Lots of brain dead comatose drowning victims and people who had suffered a fall..  even a couple of car accident victims but.. no bikers.

It was all a huge lie...  In any case.. you need insurance to ride.. you don't need it to walk around or to swim.

Oh.. and I am not an organ donor in any case.

lazs