An Interesting read from a Fw 190 pilot of JG 300

[MiloMorai]

Sure they did Krusty. Read Lipfert's auto bio.

[Golfer]

Much like planes now, I bet they can spray *some*thing on the wings before takeoff,

Exactly what would spraying anything on the wings do to prevent inflight icing?  Maybe you could spring that one on Cirrus' marketing department and they could team up with Rain-X and Marvel Mystery Oil to create the most fantastic anti ice fluid known to man...

"Just rub a little on the wings and look ma...no ice!"

[Angus]

Flying off in wet conditions to high alt always gets you from wet to frosty. No matter what season...

[Krusty]

Exactly what would spraying anything on the wings do to prevent inflight icing?  Maybe you could spring that one on Cirrus' marketing department and they could team up with Rain-X and Marvel Mystery Oil to create the most fantastic anti ice fluid known to man...

"Just rub a little on the wings and look ma...no ice!"

They do it today. Deicer is sprayed on the wings and helps prevent ice buildup as compared to the same conditions without the deicing agent.

Think of it as antifreeze or something. I don't know what chemicals they use, but they've probably been around for ages.

Milo: I don't know Lipfert's bio, but 99% of air activity ceased when you have no ceiling to the clouds, and couldn't use your basic Mk.1 eyeball for takeoffs, flyings, and landings. The other 1% had a very large chance of never returning.

[Charge]

"The other 1% had a very large chance of never returning."

Not really on topic but one common thing in books of German pilots seems to be that bad weather gets you in serious trouble really fast. I remember that in Rudel's book they had to land on other airfields, emergency fields and even on roads or even on fields totally blind because their original field could not be found or landed on because of weather and the fuel situation got critical. Rudel even tried to drive his Ju87 to his base by road once because they just could not fly back or to any other field in vicinity.

Sometimes the flying ceased because of bad weather but sometimes they went anyway, and sometimes the changes in weather were so surprising that they just could not be anticipated.

"Flying off in wet conditions to high alt always gets you from wet to frosty. No matter what season..."

Also coming down fast ices the surfaces because the airframe is cold and the moisture at lower altitudes starts to freeze on surfaces. Usually causes loss of sight because of frozen windows but probably will not cause critical icing of flight surfaces other that what would happen normally if you flew through the cloud etc.

-C+

Ps. Even the take-off could be quite hazardous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDDHvwpoQXo

[Golfer]

They don't do anything for inflight icing.  Inflight being the operative word.

They had no way to remove ice in flight other than seeking out warmer air and letting it either melt or sublimate.

They do it today. Deicer is sprayed on the wings and helps prevent ice buildup as compared to the same conditions without the deicing agent.

Think of it as antifreeze or something. I don't know what chemicals they use, but they've probably been around for ages.

Milo: I don't know Lipfert's bio, but 99% of air activity ceased when you have no ceiling to the clouds, and couldn't use your basic Mk.1 eyeball for takeoffs, flyings, and landings. The other 1% had a very large chance of never returning.

[Krusty]

Ah, I see. I figured there'd be a layer or residue during flight, but I guess this would evaporate.

As for icing mid-flight, high speed dives could break ice off a wing. The ice can't stand too much pressure and is very draggy. Very high speed air could clear it off. Not to mention ice is unique in that it melts when compressed, so maybe the pressure of the air pushing the ice into the wing helped melt it and break it off easier (not sure about that one but it sounds about right).

[Grendel]

As for icing mid-flight, high speed dives could break ice off a wing. The ice can't stand too much pressure and is very draggy. Very high speed air could clear it off.

With iced wings, with completely new aerodynamics from clean wings, with lots of extra weight in the plane, with sluggish controls... Very high speed dives are a certain way to buy yourself a nice new hole in the ground.

No, diving was and is not a way to get rid of ice.

Remember: ice changes the way the plane flies!

[Krusty]

Depends how much alt and speed you have. You're not going to spin out instantly. If you've got the alt to get to, say, 500, 550mph, as you get into the denser air you're going to break that ice off. In that state I don't think ice can stay frozen (pressure and airflow both working against it). All you need is a crack, a chip, and the rest of the ice can flake away.

That's how deicer boots work. Inflate just a little, cause a crack, and the airflow does all the rest

[Golfer]

Just...wow.

No, no, no aaaaaand hell no.

The only thing you really got right was that deice boots inflate.  Even their capability is limited however effective they may be.

Ice does scary things to airplanes including adding weight and disrupting airflow.  The way the aerodynaics changes with ice accumulation differs for every aircraft and even varies with different types of icing encountered.

It is to be respected and your ideas on how an airplane would work loaded up with ice and no means of shedding it are flawed.

Its a huge topic with more information than can be conveyed in a hundred posts but suffice to say your ideas are very much wrong.

[Motherland]

What about JG 7 , JG 400 , JV 44 and JG 3 to name a few?  I was under the impression that these squadrons were also for defence of the Reich.The had defense bands on their fuselages JG 3 had a ramsjager unit within the squadron. Two squadrons would in no way be enough to defend against hundreds of bombers and fighters

The Copypasta says 'full time'. JG300 and JG301 were built from the ground up as RVG units. JG7 barely qualifies, considering it was originally a Kampfgeschwader, even though the entire time it was converted to the Me262 and bore the Jagdgeschwader name it was RVG.

JV44 was not a full geschwader and I'm pretty sure JG400 operated many too few aircraft to be really considered a geschwader (don't remember though).

JG3 was not a 100% RVG geschwader... I'm pretty sure it was in the BoB and I know it was in Russia for a while.

Many units contributed individual gruppen to RVG duties throughout the war, but I'm pretty sure only JG11, JG300, and JG301 were the only full strength jagdgeschwaders dedicated 100% to RVG through their entire existence.

[Xasthur]

'Defence of the Reich' duties encompassed many geschwaden (sp?). There were only a few that were designated and equipped entirely as Sturm units.

I'll get the exact units later. 

[uberslet]

   According to my post, I've said that these 2 squadrons, JG 300 and JG 301, were the only two that supported the ground offensive during a certain period of time, other squadrons were fighting against Allied fighters and bombers. For a period of time, the JG 300 and 301 was fighting the Allied ground forces for a short amount of time, all by themselves, after this period of time, other air squadrons either assisted them or replaced them.

isnt that contradicting what you just stated in your first post? 

[Angus]

De-icing is a pre-flight operation, so that you're able to start with a clean wing.
In flight de-icing equipment is mechanical, it will break off the ice.
And shifting alt violently will ice you all over, cold airframe taking a hot and humid air.
It will block visibility mostly, for a short while, untill it melts off.
The quick icing is the most dangerous, before you know it, your aircraft is out of control and too heavy to fly.
Well, we have to learn about this in ...Iceland 

[BigPlay]

   According to my post, I've said that these 2 squadrons, JG 300 and JG 301, were the only two that supported the ground offensive during a certain period of time, other squadrons were fighting against Allied fighters and bombers. For a period of time, the JG 300 and 301 was fighting the Allied ground forces for a short amount of time, all by themselves, after this period of time, other air squadrons either assisted them or replaced them.

They alone defended the homeland against the bombers of the USAAF and RAF during this crucial period of the war on the western front.

That was a snippet taken from your post. Maybe Im not reading it correctly but it does say against bombers.