Author Topic: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please  (Read 14645 times)

Offline Vudak

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Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« on: July 21, 2008, 12:54:58 PM »
Lately, Ive been thinking about what Combat Tour will bring to our community.  Personally, I think it will be a grand success that will bring many new players to our game.  On the other hand, this will for a time dilute the talent level and overstrain the trainers. 

There is a large group of people that try to help people out unofficially, but for a new player, running into one that has the specific talents and teaching style needed is a largely hit or miss affair.  I propose that we take some basic steps to organize ourselves to make it easier for all of us to help other players.

The reason for needing this is that not all of us that help are qualified to help in certain areas.  For example, if I am working with a guy, and he tells me, Gee, Id really like to learn how to energy fight, I know very well that I am not the guy to teach him.  Sure, I can explain the basics, but as far as pushing his limits and such, I just cant do it.  Its not what I practice every day.  Its something that I need a lot of help in myself.

Unfortunately, as it stands, I dont always have a great idea of where to send this fellow.  Lets change that.  Id appreciate it if everyone who is willing to help would fill out a simple dossier in this thread, first with your general information:

Call Sign:
BBS Handle:
General Location/Times Available:
Email: (You may omit, or use spaces, etc. to get around spammers)
Preferred Contact Method:

And then with some more specific information:

Online Flight Sim Experience:
Preferred Aircraft:
General Style: (Sure, most of us mix it up, but what best describes you in general?)
Can Teach Topics: (Angles, BnZ, Energy, GV, Level Bombing, Jabo, 1v1, 1v2, etc.)
Teaching Method: (TA? DA? Lecture/Email? MA sorties? Etc.)
Can Teach Skill Level(s): (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert)

I think this could really help out the community in a number of ways.  It will help the official trainers in that theyll have a ready list of people they can send their students to for extra practice, it will help guys who cant meet an official trainer for whatever reason meet up with someone else, it will help those of us looking to push it to the next level find the people that can help us do that, and it will help give new guys a running start in the community as theyll now know a more experienced person, and have at least one online friend.

If you think this is a useful idea, please sign up.  The official trainers are more than welcome (and encouraged) to fill this out as well.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Vudak

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 12:56:58 PM »
Call Sign: Vudak
BBS Handle: Vudak
General Location/Times Available: Eastern USA, Evenings
Email: Vudak   at   yahoo   .   com
Preferred Contact Method: BBS Private Message

Online Flight Sim Experience: Began flying AW in 98, AH in 04. 
Preferred Aircraft: F4U Corsair, all models.
General Style: Aggressive Angles Fighter.
Can Teach Topics: Basic to intermediate 1v1, Corsair tips & tricks.
Teaching Method: TA or DA practice with email review.
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Beginner to intermediate.  Can generally hold my own vs. advanced, but cant promise youll end up being the student.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2008, 01:00:04 PM by Vudak »
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 01:00:30 PM »
Call Sign: Dichodog
BBS Handle: Dichotomy
General Location/Times Available: Sketchy but willing to do 30 minutes here and there to help a new guy
Email: will PM
Preferred Contact Method: email or pm

And then with some more specific information:

Online Flight Sim Experience: 2 years
Preferred Aircraft: P51D, Spit 8
General Style: Not good at anything
Can Teach Topics: Basics.  Turning on engine, setting radio, dot commands, etiquette, very basic flight maneuvers, and willing to fly a target drone for a new guy.
Teaching Method: Take them away from the crowd and be patient
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Beginner

I like this idea Vudak.. I'll start putting in some more time in the TA as time allows.  Keep me posted.
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline Adonai

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 01:07:23 PM »
Call Sign: Adonai
BBS Handle: Adonai
General Location/Times Available: Florida, Tampa 1pm - 5pm EST
Email: adonai @ jagdgeschwader7.com
Preferred Contact Method: aim - misconduc or email

And then with some more specific information:

Online Flight Sim Experience: 11 years
Preferred Aircraft: Me109k4
General Style: Furballer
Can Teach Topics: Angles, BnZ, Energy, GV, Level Bombing, Jabo, 1v1, 1v2
Teaching Method: TA and Main arena (wingman)
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced

Offline Yossarian

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2008, 01:16:46 PM »
Call Sign: McWatt
BBS Handle: Yossarian
General Location/Times Available: London, UK (timings will vary A LOT - sometimes almost all day, other times rarely ever)
Email: see PMs, please
Preferred Contact Method: PM and e-mail if possible

And then with some more specific information:

Online Flight Sim Experience: Microsoft FS2000, then FS2004 for a few years, then FSX for a week or two (computer not good enough for it), and now Aces High for maybe a year
Preferred Aircraft: B-25H, Spitfires, T-bolts
General Style: Do whatever I can (within reason) to get a kill or two.  Sometimes I get a few kills a night, other times none.
Can Teach Topics: GV, Level Bombing, Jabo, B-25ing, take-offs and landings
Teaching Method: TA, E-mail, MA sorties.  And what Dichotomy said, being patient etc.
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Beginner
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Offline ImADot

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 01:25:27 PM »
Call Sign:  ImADot
BBS Handle: ImADot
General Location/Times Available: Central USA, Evenings
Email:
Preferred Contact Method: If you see me online, just holler

Online Flight Sim Experience: AH2 since about March '08
Preferred Aircraft: Early War planes: Hurricane, Zeke, etc.
General Style: TnB with some E-fighting
Can Teach Topics: Basic Flight, basic ACM, level bombing, how to die properly, PATIENCE AND RESPECT
Teaching Method: TA or DA practice, quiet spot in EW Arena.
Can Teach Skill Level(s): Noob to Advanced Beginner
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Offline BaldEagl

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 01:41:28 PM »
Vudak, while I applaud your effort I'm not so sure this is actually a good idea.  Some that I see signing up are the same people that spend a fair amount of time here in the H&T Forum asking questions themselves.  I can also envision specific individuals signing up who might fancy themselves as trainers, but are actually clueless.

Potentially teaching someone improper proceedures or bad habits may actually do more harm than good.  Unlearning bad habits is difficult.

The AH trainers have been selected because they fully understand the fundamentals of the game, the complexities of ACM and also have the ability to teach these fundamentals to others.

The resources available; the trainers site, the AH help files, Soda's and DocGonzo's sites, this forum, the Aircraft and Vehicle forum and others provide a wealth of information should someone be inclined to want to learn more about an aspect of the game.  More importantly, these resources are reviewed by the community and inaccuracies, ambiguities and outright bad information is quicky caught and rectified.  How can you be certain the same applies to "unofficial player/trainers"?

I don't want to rain on your parade but just thought I'd share my hessitation.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline Vudak

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 01:51:22 PM »
BaldEagl,

I understand your concern (and have thought about some of your points myself), but let's look at it this way:

Anyone who signs up for this thread is already trying to help guys out.  Whether or not this thread exists,  they're still going to do that.  So if they are in fact teaching an innaccuracy, etc., the other guys still need to work to correct the problem.

With this though, the people who end up having to correct the problem at least have a ready list they can run down to see if there's someone that could help out.  That person probably has a good idea of which people are going to help, and which people are not.  It's basically a referral system.

That said, there's nothing wrong with a beginner saying, "Hey, I'll take some time out of my day to help you understand the basics, but those are my limitations."  Our public schools have grades K-12, after all, and if someone can teach a guy even just how to take off, it really helps out.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand your concern, but think the benefits outweigh the possible side effects.

I think that so long as people are honest in their dossier, the problem will be minimized.

But as far as, "Some that I see signing up are the same people that spend a fair amount of time here in the H&T Forum asking questions themselves..."

Well, gee, that applies to everyone playing this game :)
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Dichotomy

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2008, 02:00:36 PM »
Bald

I've been thinking for a long time that something with some structure to it would be beneficial to AH and the Trainers Corps. 

For my part I'd make my limitations known.  I don't teach ACM, SA, or maneuvering.  I'll teach a guy how to turn his engine on and off, how to get off the ground with and without autotakeoff, give them some basic idea of how to land, how to tune the radio, the basic dot commands, how to set up their offline practices, turn on and off the lead computed gunsight, and such.  After getting them off the ground and comfortable in their plane and they have the ability to do these basic things I'd hand em off to the trainers or someone with a higher level of playing skill than I do.  This could free up the trainers to work with the intermediate to advanced players more often.  Having a list of people willing to help with their known limitations could be a tool for the official trainers as well.  Example; Ghost sees me come in and he's got a guy that's on his two week trial and can't figure out how to get his engine started.  He can holler at me and say 'dicho playerX needs the basics can you help him I'm doing a training session right now'. 

I see what you're saying and I don't want to teach someone how to do it wrong so I'm offering well short of my abilities so I don't stray to grey and hurt someones progress.
JG11 - Dicho37Only The Proud Only The Strong AH Players who've passed on :salute

Offline humble

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2008, 02:14:12 PM »
I've been on both sides of this equation. I spent something like a year or 18 months as a trainer here and I've worked with players of varying skill levels both before and afterward. Speaking from 1st hand experience I'll add the following...

1) A players ability to "fly" and his ability to "teach" arent always interrelated. Not every hot stick can actually teach and some guys actually teach better then they fly.

2) There have always been a number of "informal trainers" in the TA (and to a degree in the MA and DA)...some are every bit as good as most of the formal trainers...and some are totally clueless IMO.

3) The only way to learn to be a trainer is to start, its a OJT type of thing.

4) Value is in the eye of the end user, if a guy feels he's getting good solid advice that shows tangible results then its working for him.

Now IMO a cadre of "certified assistant trainers" would go along way in helping to spread the load. Either by "check ride" or prior knowledge folks could gain a "seal of approval" and an invite to a TA squad organized for that purpose. It would serve as an additional resource as well as a potential pool for futute trainers as needed/wanted...

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2008, 02:22:08 PM »
I'll hold my reservations/thoughts on this thread to myself, and just let it be known that HTC & the Trainer corps have already planned ahead for Combat Tour and also for some other things.....and will leave any other comments/opinions/thoughts to be addressed by the current Head Trainer, Murdr.......

I am sure he will reply, once he gets home and does not have to try and type on his mobile phone ( LOL )

and we always appreciate people wanting to help us help others....... ~SALUTE~
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Offline Vudak

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2008, 02:30:34 PM »
I'm going to leave it at this, I am of the opinion that networking/organizing the guys that already help out is a good thing.

I am also of the opinion that there is no substitute for an official trainer.

Finally, if Murdr, et al, get together and decide that this is a bad/harmful thing for any reason, I will be ok with looking in this forum and seeing the thread deleted.  I won't make an issue of it.  This is your forum, trainers, you make the call.

I'm trying to help, not hurt.  If you feel like I've opened a can of worms, kindly toss it off the deep end.
Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Steve

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2008, 02:38:26 PM »
This thread is very well intended.  <SALUTE>

Maybe some trainers wil be born of this thread. The down side is that there may be those who make claims of being able to teach at an advanced level when they have no right to make that claim. I believe this was already mentioned.

 The fact is, most experienced sticks are already unofficial trainers to one degree or another. Vudak is looking for a way to catalogue them and make their names known to the masses.  With this sort of informal training going on  already, is this really such a bad idea?

I don't claim to be an ace so when someone asks for a ridealong I let them but always give a disclaimer regarding any level of skill.*  :aok


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Offline Vudak

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2008, 03:24:34 PM »

 The fact is, most experienced sticks are already unofficial trainers to one degree or another. Vudak is looking for a way to catalogue them and make their names known to the masses.  With this sort of informal training going on  already, is this really such a bad idea?


That's exactly what I was getting at, thanks for clarifying, Steve  :salute

Vudak
352nd Fighter Group

Offline Banshee7

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Re: Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2008, 03:46:47 PM »
i can be found in the TA often...i just dont feel like filling that thing out  :D
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