Unofficial Trainers - Read This Please

[2bighorn]

You release pressure on the stick when you shoot? I have never done that, if you do that you will under-lead, assuming you were at the correct lead to begin with.

When I have angle and lead for a shot I stretch lead a bit, then release pressure. It assures tighter grouping and with that more chances to cause damage. But I'm not good shot by any means so I may be wrong on that one.

The only time I could see doing that would be if your are in pure lead pursuit and have to relax the stick to let the bandit "catch-up" to the deflection angle. Is that what you mean?

In this case I'd release pressure as well, so yes...

I have been in about 9,872,638 fights and filmed about 23,789,203 fights I wasn't directly involved in. In almost every one of those fights that was the result of a nose to nose merge there were susequent mini re-merges at an oblique angle resulting in at least one crossing shot opportunity prior the fight either being decided or devolving into mostly in-plane maneuvering and tracking shots.

I'm not that experienced, but whenever I fight one of your squaddies and if I give them crossing shot I die. IIRC, none of them is/was spraying when taking those shots.

[Steve]

When I have angle and lead for a shot I stretch lead a bit, then release pressure. It assures tighter grouping and with that more chances to cause damage.

Interesting.  do you have any data to support this? Assuming you are pulling the correct amount of lead, I would think this would just serve to make some of your rounds miss.

[2bighorn]

For instance ,can anyone reasonably argue that SA plays as large a role in the DA that it does in the MA?

Nobody is arguing that. I'm just saying that there is more overlap between DA and MA than Zazen says (he claims there is none).

[2bighorn]

Interesting.  do you have any data to support this?

Apart from 'Kills Hit Percentage', none really.

[Bosco123]

Both sides have good points, but, the MA is a little diffrent from the DA. Like ZaZen said, you don't even have to worry about so much ammo in the DA becasue you only fight one person. I go to the DA alot, and from experience I waste a lot of ammo, just tring to kill the other person. MA though, I try and and get a decent shot, before I take a shot. Unless I'm 1v1 with someone in the MA, I'm not looking to waste ammo in the MA, wereas, I use a lot of ammo in the DA.
This whole argument seems to be looking at "Snapshots". one side says take the shot, the other says don't take the shot. I agree with ZaZen on this one, I have never had a problem manuvering and taking the shot at the same time. You can never expect a clean shot in the DA, because he is tring to out manuver you; you are tring to out manuver him. If you get the shot, take it.

[Zazen13]

Nobody is arguing that. I'm just saying that there is more overlap between DA and MA than Zazen says (he claims there is none).

Please don't twist what I said...I did not say there is no overlap whatsoever...I said 1 vs 1s duels are great for learning to ride the edge of a plane and merging. Both of those skills are applicable to the MA.

[Zazen13]

I'm not that experienced, but whenever I fight one of your squaddies and if I give them crossing shot I die. IIRC, none of them is/was spraying when taking those shots.

My squaddies are not representative of the average. The Muppets are comprised of some of the best fighter jocks that are currently in the game, most especially in terms of gunnery. For your average fighter pilot that type of shot is probably a 10-15% shot.

[2bighorn]

Please don't twist what I said...I did not say there is no overlap whatsoever...I said 1 vs 1s duels are great for learning to ride the edge of a plane and merging. Both of those skills are applicable to the MA.

To quote your answer to WW

They don't overlap very much at all actually.

My squaddies are not representative of the average. The Muppets are comprised of some of the best fighter jocks that are currently in the game, most especially in terms of gunnery. For your average fighter pilot that type of shot is probably a 10-15% shot.

Why do you think they got so good at gunnery? Because they were spraying and praying, or they actually tried and trained to aim? Many of them did and still do practice in DA.

You can learn which shots are worth taking in any arena. DA won't make you spray more than any other arena.

[Zazen13]

Why do you think they got so good at gunnery? Because they were spraying and praying, or they actually tried and trained to aim? Many of them did and still do practice in DA.

You can learn which shots are worth taking in any arena. DA won't make you spray more than any other arena.

Shooting a stream up for a crossing shots doesn't mean not aiming, it means using ammunition liberally to take relatively low percentage shots (for most people who don't have 20 years of gunnery experience). While the DA doesn't "make" people shoot at bad shots in this fashion exactly, it doesn't penalize them for doing it either. The MA does. If you squirt your hose at all those bad shots in the MA you'd rarely get more than 1 kill and you would run out of ammunition pretty quickly unless you are endowed with superhuman aiming abilities. In the DA, you are there for only 1 kill so your ammoload is for all practical purposes, infinite. In the MA your ammoload and how judiciously you use it, assuming you do not die, is the single biggest limiting factor that determines how successful your hop is in terms of killing.

[Zazen13]

Saying something, "...Doesn't overlap much..", is not the same as saying they have absolutely nothing in common...just FYI.

[2bighorn]

Spraying at crossing shots doesn't mean not aiming, it means using ammunition to take relatively low percentage shots (for most people who don't have 20 years of gunenry experience). While the DA doesn't "make" people shoot at bad shots in this fashion exactly, it doesn't penalize them for doing it either. The MA does, if you squirt your hose at all those bad shots in the MA you'd rarely get more than 1 kill and you would run out of ammunition pretty quickly. In the DA, you are there for only 1 kill so your ammoload is for all practical purposes, infinite. In the MA your ammoload and how judiciously you use it, assuming you do not die, is the single biggest limiting factor that determines how successful your hop is in terms of killing.

And again, ammo is not of concern in DA but you still don't take low percentage shots at any opportunity for another reason (time and angles).

And yes, you do get penalized in DA if you miss. In most cases you'll die in the next turn.

[2bighorn]

Saying something, "...Doesn't overlap much..", is not the same as saying they have absolutely nothing in common...just FYI.

But you didn't say that. You said "overlap very much at all". Besides, you have to see it in context with the rest of your post.

[Zazen13]

And yes, you do get penalized in DA if you miss. In most cases you'll die in the next turn.

How does missing a shot cause you to lose your angle and die exactly? I don't get this connection you keep making between shooting and positional maneuvering. They are two totally separate things, one has nothing to do with the other. One would presume if you had a crossing shot your flightpath relative to the bandit would be close to perpendicular, 90 degrees is even money in terms and angular advantage. You might want to film your next few duels and let someone else watch them, I strongly suspect you are doing something fundamentally wrong...

[Zazen13]

But you didn't say that. You said "overlap very much at all". Besides, you have to see it in context with the rest of your post.

Holy cow dude  , that's still not the same thing as saying, "Has absolutely nothing in common",...Are you intentionally being anal retentive or do you just like arguing?

[2bighorn]

I suspect you are doing something fundamentally wrong...

Most likely, and I'll let it be at that, since we are way off topic anyways.