The most over-rated aircraft in the hangar

[Zazen13]

The only time a 262 in the Mains is dangerous is if you're already involved with another target, or you're in Buffs which can't maneuver out of the way.

Yup, if there's 2+ following up on each other's passes that can be dangerous too for those with weaker SA or too involved in a fight to duck more than 1 effectively.

[SmokinLoon]

I still say the Spitfire Mk 14 is far over-rated.  It needs to be perked about as bad as the Spitfire Mk 9.  The Spit14 only distances itself from other Spitfire Mk's over 22k alt, and even then the Spit16 can still do it all better 'cept for raw speed.

[uberslet]

There is nothing wrong with the gun on the Firefly.  It was able to kill a Tiger with one shot in real life, no reason why it shouldn't be able to do it here.


ack-ack

After the Brits upgraded it. The tigers played with the Americans shermans like a toy.

[humble]

What's up with the 'special' club of people who say "there are no over-rated planes, only pilots?"    It's merely a cliche that sounds cool (to some), and amounts to the denial of the human psychological capacity for erring evaluation.  Think about it.  Asking whether or not some aircraft are over rated is not the same debate over whether it's the pilot or the plane.  It's a question about the accuracy of human perception and judgement.

Actually they are 100% correct, the pilot is 80%+ of the equation. All WW2 fighter aircraft are very capable and the functional differences are suprisingly minimal. This easily documentable historically. For starters just look at the success of the hawk75 in French service, the Brewster in Finnish service and the P-39D in russian service. The Oscar flew for the Japanese for the entire war in front line service as well.

A seasoned pilot understands the strengths and weaknesses of any plane type and can work to maximize his success accordingly. While there are true functional differences that give one plane an advantage over an other (pure speed being the the easiest to recognize) the simple reality is that success is measured in a quantifiable way (kills). While the overall "kill band" is suprisingly "flat" across all plane types the variance between seasoned, average, new and uber pilots is exceptionally large.

The simple truth is that the pilot makes the plane deadly.

[humble]

the p-51 is overated because it was by far the best plane in WWII but in the game,it is easily outurned and terrible at low alt . but I think that it should be the way it is becuase if it was like it was in WWII then the arena's would be completly set off and the game would have no variety

I think you have a couple of major misconceptions working here....

1st your statement about the pony being "by far" the best plane of WW2 is very incorrect. The most famous quote about the pony is roughly as follows.

"what made the Pony special wasnt its performance, but the fact that it was performing over Berlin"

2nd the ponies overall flight envelope is quite good, it simply requires a more complete understanding of ACM then some others to be successful with...

[Ack-Ack]

After the Brits upgraded it. The tigers played with the Americans shermans like a toy.

Notice that I was referring to and mentioned the Firefly, not the M4 Sherman.


ack-ack

[Furball]

During the last frame of Der Zweite Blitz in the last FSO four of my squadron flew 262s, and the guys I picked all had experience with the ship in the Mains. There were at least two or three occasions I lost kills because of the awful ballistics, rate of fire and muzzle velocity of the guns. The target flew right through my bullet-stream on the snapshot, and would have been dead if I'd had Brownings or Hispanos, or even the smaller German guns.

The only time a 262 in the Mains is dangerous is if you're already involved with another target, or you're in Buffs which can't maneuver out of the way.

There is a knack to flying the 262 which comes with practice which makes it dangerous, typically you need to use it as an ambush fighter, not just pick - i have ambushed the same guys 4 or 5 times in the same sortie without them ever being engaged and they were on the lookout for me.  At the end of it they didn't even know what i was in.  Not saying i am great in it, just there is a way to do it in a 540mph jet.  Use of terrain is important, i pretty much go into the attack on the deck to hide it, if you go in high then you are just a neon sign saying HO me.  Generally the only time i bother killing cons who know i am there is when i rope them, which i only do if i know i am in a safe situation.  262 is surprisingly good at roping but timing is critical.  I agree about targets flying through the bullet stream, have had that many times myself.

I set up my angles to get shot off at around 200 yards or so and change my convergence on the guns to get a shotgun effect.  Only time i bother to fly scored as fighter is in 262, so i know my hit % is usually between 15 - 20% in it - give it a try.

<S>

[evenhaim]

There is a knack to flying the 262 which comes with practice which makes it dangerous, typically you need to use it as an ambush fighter, not just pick - i have ambushed the same guys 4 or 5 times in the same sortie without them ever being engaged and they were on the lookout for me.  At the end of it they didn't even know what i was in.  Not saying i am great in it, just there is a way to do it in a 540mph jet.  Use of terrain is important, i pretty much go into the attack on the deck to hide it, if you go in high then you are just a neon sign saying HO me.  Generally the only time i bother killing cons who know i am there is when i rope them, which i only do if i know i am in a safe situation.  262 is surprisingly good at roping but timing is critical.  I agree about targets flying through the bullet stream, have had that many times myself.

I set up my angles to get shot off at around 200 yards or so and change my convergence on the guns to get a shotgun effect.  Only time i bother to fly scored as fighter is in 262, so i know my hit % is usually between 15 - 20% in it - give it a try.

<S>

I remember me you and moot on a 262 sweep...plague like.

sax duel kappa in his 262, its insane

[Furball]

I remember me you and moot on a 262 sweep...plague like.

That was an awesome day, Moot and myself 3 or 4 15 + kill sorties each, was around A1 on NDIsles iirc.  I think we then moved down south and i immediately got an oil leak from exploding buff drone and had to log because it was late

[Widewing]

The simple truth is that the pilot makes the plane deadly.

So very true.

There are no truly over-rated fighters in the game. There are, however, some over-rated pilots..... 


My regards,

Widewing

[SmokinLoon]

I am sick and tired like so many others when it comes to people who shoot their mouths off saying "it is the pilot and not the plane".  That is such BS.  The plane used is far more a factor in this sim that ANY of the "aces" will admit to.  Just how many aces take a P40B?  A Hurricane I?  A Spit I or V?  A Bf109E?  Stop the BS and own up to the facts: the plane in which a "player-pilot" flies is far more important than any of the "l337 skilz" some of you "slobberdonkeyz" tout.  The "aces" in this sim/game will use the P51D, La7, Spit16, Nik2, Bf109k4, Typhoon, or any other plane that excels in some manner.     

Take any "ace" and put them in a P40B and me in a Spit16 and I'll win 9 of 10 even with my vastly inferior abilities.  NONE of the high score players (fighters) make their rank in a average or below average plane.  NONE.  Go look at the stats.

Stop the BS.     

[Bronk]

I am sick and tired like so many others when it comes to people who shoot their mouths off saying "it is the pilot and not the plane".  That is such BS.  The plane used is far more a factor in this sim that ANY of the "aces" will admit to.  Just how many aces take a P40B?  A Hurricane I?  A Spit I or V?  A Bf109E?  Stop the BS and own up to the facts: the plane in which a "player-pilot" flies is far more important than any of the "l337 skilz" some of you "slobberdonkeyz" tout.  The "aces" in this sim/game will use the P51D, La7, Spit16, Nik2, Bf109k4, Typhoon, or any other plane that excels in some manner.     

Take any "ace" and put them in a P40B and me in a Spit16 and I'll win 9 of 10 even with my vastly inferior abilities.  NONE of the high score players (fighters) make their rank in a average or below average plane.  NONE.  Go look at the stats.

Stop the BS.     

Filth would slap you around like a red headed step child.

[humble]

I am sick and tired like so many others when it comes to people who shoot their mouths off saying "it is the pilot and not the plane".  That is such BS.  The plane used is far more a factor in this sim that ANY of the "aces" will admit to.  Just how many aces take a P40B?  A Hurricane I?  A Spit I or V?  A Bf109E?  Stop the BS and own up to the facts: the plane in which a "player-pilot" flies is far more important than any of the "l337 skilz" some of you "slobberdonkeyz" tout.  The "aces" in this sim/game will use the P51D, La7, Spit16, Nik2, Bf109k4, Typhoon, or any other plane that excels in some manner.     

Take any "ace" and put them in a P40B and me in a Spit16 and I'll win 9 of 10 even with my vastly inferior abilities.  NONE of the high score players (fighters) make their rank in a average or below average plane.  NONE.  Go look at the stats.

Stop the BS.     

Whos say that the "high scoring" pilots are any good?

Personally I prefer the A-20 and the P39D to the P-40B but they all work just fine....

[BnZ]

Yeah, lets not go too far with this "its the pilot, not the plane" business.

There are some matchups where the one player MUST make a grave mistake to give the fight to the other guy, while the other must simply avoid making mistakes.

Extreme example: Spit16 vrs a 190A5. Or a P-51/Jug/Dora that doesn't run. There are multiple ways for Spitfire to win this (In energy building or turning, it enjoys superiority, so any strategy you want to use is liable to work), and only a few ways for it to loose. (Really bad merge, failure to control throttle and overshooting, trying to HO the 190...hmmm....those are the only three I can think of.)

I notice is a tendency to take early-war kites, which often turn very well compared to their late war counterparts (Spit5 vrs. Spit16, 109F vrs 109K, P-40 vrs. P-51, you get the idea), and entice late war bricks into turning fights. Well sorry, horsepower (for whatever reason) is a harder advantage to use than turning superiority for most people in sim dogfighting. Once the higher wing-loaded plane is persuaded to t'n'b and the running windown is firmly shut, there is no "magic" to shooting it down.

No piloting can make any slower plane catch a faster one in the usual scenario where they WILL run if you latch on and running looks viable, of course.

[Widewing]

I am sick and tired like so many others when it comes to people who shoot their mouths off saying "it is the pilot and not the plane".  That is such BS.  The plane used is far more a factor in this sim that ANY of the "aces" will admit to.  Just how many aces take a P40B?  A Hurricane I?  A Spit I or V?  A Bf109E?  Stop the BS and own up to the facts: the plane in which a "player-pilot" flies is far more important than any of the "l337 skilz" some of you "slobberdonkeyz" tout.  The "aces" in this sim/game will use the P51D, La7, Spit16, Nik2, Bf109k4, Typhoon, or any other plane that excels in some manner.     

Take any "ace" and put them in a P40B and me in a Spit16 and I'll win 9 of 10 even with my vastly inferior abilities.  NONE of the high score players (fighters) make their rank in a average or below average plane.  NONE.  Go look at the stats.

Stop the BS.     

Let me offer an analogy that highlights the flaw in your reasoning.

Two guys, one a master craftsman, the other just an average guy.

The master craftsman is limited to manual hand tools (saws, screw drivers and such).

The average guy gets to go to Lowes and buys every new power tool he desires.

Both set out to build you a bookshelf. You have to decide which bookshelf you must buy prior to it being made.

Which guy gets your money?

Tools don't make the craftsman, skill makes the craftsman.

The other guy is just a duffer with a garage full of tools. The tools don't make the bookshelf.

A poor craftsman will make a poor bookshelf, regardless of what tools he owns.

Stop by the TA tomorrow evening after 8 PM your time and we'll put the analogy to the test.


My regards,

Widewing