Author Topic: Waffen SS Squad?  (Read 11913 times)

Offline angelsandair

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #105 on: August 02, 2008, 08:43:22 PM »
Just out of curiousity, who started it?  Who used area bombing as a weapon of terror in Guernica, and Holland not to mention London, Conventry etc. 

Last I saw it was an Allied leader who took Hitler at his word and believed in "peace in our time".

Seems to me that old Dolf and company got it back in spades for what they started.  I don't recall the Allies looking for 'living room", or trying to exterminate a race.  Total war is what it is.  That doesn't include genocide etc.

That you defend the Waffen SS at all is kind of a scary thing to see.  You keep wanting to make this about individual soldiers.  It isn't.  It's about an organization that stood for evil

Didn't the Japanese drop plague infected rice on Chinese Cities?
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #106 on: August 02, 2008, 09:30:34 PM »
If I can't have a Confederate flag (which has been kidnapped by skinhead punks and the KKK) without being called a racist, then there can't be a Waffen SS squad (haven't read whole thread, anyone point out where they executed Allied prisoners during Battle of the Bulge?)

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Offline hlbly

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #107 on: August 03, 2008, 12:54:58 AM »
I once was enamoured with the Waffen SS .As a young boy I admired their fighting ability . Then my dad got me a book called Mischling 5th degree . A story about a child who didn't consider herself a jew having a distant ancestor who was jewish . Then he explained to me my mothers maiden name <Asher> . I realised that I would have been funnel smoke in Hitlers Germany . Kind of modified my attitude to say the least . He then got me a book about Mordecai Tal  and gave me a new hero to admire .

Offline CAP1

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #108 on: August 03, 2008, 01:04:36 AM »
bet this makes 15 pages before either skuzzy locks it, or htc boots the squad name.
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Offline TimRas

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #109 on: August 03, 2008, 02:55:25 AM »
I suppose you did not get the difference between Waffen-SS and Algemeine-SS.

Do you ?

"In 1942, for administrative reasons, the guard and administrative staff of all the concentration camps became full members of the Waffen-SS. In addition, to oversee the large administrative burden of an extensive labor camp system, the concentration camps were placed under the command of the SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt (WVHA). Oswald Pohl commanded the WVHA, while Richard Glücks served as the Inspector of Concentration Camps.

By 1944, with the concentration camps fully integrated with the Waffen-SS and under the control of the WVHA, a standard practice developed to rotate SS members in and out of the camps, based on manpower needs and also to give assignments to wounded Waffen-SS officers and soldiers who could no longer serve in front-line combat duties. This rotation of personnel is the main argument that nearly the entire SS knew of the concentration camps, and what actions were committed within, making the entire organization liable for war crimes and crimes against humanity"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schutzstaffel#Concentration_camp_service

There is a good book, "The Waffen SS: Hitler's Elite Guard at War, 1939-45" by George H. Stein, (translated in Finnish also, "Waffen-SS, Hitlerin eliittikaarti sodassa 1939-1945")

Elite warriors, brutal murderers - deserving of both titles
"The author presents a clear and concise (without simply rehashing particular atrocities covered in depth elsewhere) description of crimes that can be connected to the Waffen SS, whether directly or indirectly. While crimes can clearly be attributed to battle formations, both combatant- and non-combatant-related, it is also clear from Stein's presentation that a majority of Waffen SS units were not likely involved in such events. This is not to say that Stein presents an apologist view, quite to the contrary - he presents an honest assessment of guilt - the Waffen SS was guilty but it is unfair to claim all units were simply butchers. Yet equally unfair would be a claim that the Waffen SS was simply an army free of guilt. When it comes to connections between the Waffen SS and the holocaust the story is one mostly of semantics. As Stein points out it is beyond doubt that the SS represented the system by which Hitler attempted (and nearly succeeded) to murder all of the European jews and other "Untermensch" (subhumans). It is also clear that many of the units involved were, at least on paper, part of the Waffen SS. Moreover, much of the concentration camp staff turn over was between the camps and the front lines. Yet it is not at all clear that fighting units of the Waffen SS were directly involved in these acts. Thus it becomes an issue of semantics because it depends upon how one defines "Waffen SS". Again this is not to say that Stein presents an apologist view or one of strict and total condemnation. In fact Stein presents a picture in which the facts are presented and the reader is free to define the culprits for themselves. "




Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #110 on: August 03, 2008, 11:53:48 AM »
I have read Hilberg's The Destruction of the European Jews among other books, and consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the Einsatzgruppen and other forces of genocide in Hitler's Germany.  That said, there's no doubt in my mind that the Nazis get special treatment among perpetrators of crimes against humanity.  They get the most press coverage, the most films made about them, the most books written...the list goes on.  Let's not forget that the Soviets were great imitators of the Nazis, and yet we allow the displaying of their hammer and sickle on squad insignia as nonchalantly as college students wearing Che t-shirts, even though it is the symbol equivalent of the swastika.

I don't think the name "Waffen SS" is appropriate for a squad in AH, but I'd be fine with a name like "Satan's Minions" or something comparable. :devil
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 11:56:39 AM by Anaxogoras »
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Offline crazierthanu

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #111 on: August 03, 2008, 12:27:56 PM »
Its funny because I rarely read general discussion anymore.
Everytime I come here half of the page is covered in complaints about stupid things.
If you have a problem with something (I.E A squad name, Someones handle) dont bring it public,
Just mail HTC about it.
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Offline hlbly

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #112 on: August 03, 2008, 01:08:52 PM »
I think that comparing them as similar is right in line, actually. The people dropping the bombs knew quite well that they were killing people.  You don't think the bomber crews were so delusional that they thought they were only destroying the buildings, and not the people inside?

So killing people because they are of a different "race" is somehow worse than killing people for other reasons?

I still fail to see how these are so different. Is one "meaner" than the other? Sorry, I just feel that killing people in droves is bad no matter how it is carried out. I think it is silly to be offended by a group because they killed people, and then not be offended by another group because they killed people in a different way.
Man do you even consider what motivated the guys dropping the bombs versus what the guys putting pistols to peoples heads in this ?

Offline hlbly

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #113 on: August 03, 2008, 01:13:53 PM »
And that is not true.

Even the so much despised Wikipedia will help you over that misguided statement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#Foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Waffen_SS_volunteers

---

The Holocaust is kind of a side track in this discussion, since we are talking about Waffen-SS, not about the Algemeine-SS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS#War_crimes
Of cource you may want to argue that they were all the same in SS... and all the Germans were the same, etc... maybe even all blond europeans were the same.

Lastly, about the cold blooded intention. Just for the sake of argument, what is the real difference between Evenheim's example of "unit goes to a town and systematically executes every man women and child" and dropping the A-bomb to Hirosima and Nagasaki, or RAF bombing Hamburg and Dresden?

Both are inhumane terror acts. Both aim to demoralize the enemy so that they would not dare to attack against you anymore. The SS troops did just that. E.g. some partisans or underground resistance had killed couple of their men, thus they killed a whole town from that area.

I still claim that some Waffen-SS men did commit atrocities just as some allied bomber units did commit atrocities. BUT not all of them did!
The biggest difference is the connection Waffen-SS, as an organization, had to the despised Nazi party and to their ideology. Still that does not make every Waffen-SS soldier a Nazi.


Hiroshima nagasaki dresden were about ending the war the SS was about ending whole peoples because of hate . pretty big difference to me .

Offline saantana

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2008, 01:23:20 PM »
Its funny because I rarely read general discussion anymore.
Everytime I come here half of the page is covered in complaints about stupid things.
If you have a problem with something (I.E A squad name, Someones handle) dont bring it public,
Just mail HTC about it.

Everytime I come here half of the page is covered in complaints about stupid things.
They might be stupid to some, including yourself. If that is the case, you do not need to participate. To me it wasn't stupid at all. And the email to HTC has already been sent, if you had read the earlier posts.
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Offline Spikes

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2008, 01:48:28 PM »
Saw a squad long ago "Einsatzgruppen SS". Was promptly removed.
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Offline Banshee7

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #116 on: August 03, 2008, 01:55:02 PM »
and...like mentioned...Blut und ehre had to be changed (which i do agree with) so Waffen SS should be dealt with to
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Offline angelsandair

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #117 on: August 03, 2008, 02:02:35 PM »
So no one is going to answer my question? We didn't use biological warfare against civilians during WW2, the Japanese did, we didn't play catch using bayonets on babies like the japanese did. I recall the Germans wiping out a whole town because ONE person helped out the British and then left. We didn't do that, there's still a HUGE difference between what we did, and they did.
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Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #118 on: August 03, 2008, 02:14:07 PM »
So no one is going to answer my question? We didn't use biological warfare against civilians during WW2, the Japanese did, we didn't play catch using bayonets on babies like the japanese did. I recall the Germans wiping out a whole town because ONE person helped out the British and then left. We didn't do that, there's still a HUGE difference between what we did, and they did.
we did fire bomb civillians, some estimate one million died in one night, all civillians.  15.8 square miles were burned. 1.5 million people lived in that area.  I do not believe this was necessary.

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Offline angelsandair

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Re: Waffen SS Squad?
« Reply #119 on: August 03, 2008, 02:17:06 PM »
I severly doubt 1 million civilians were killed in 1 night. The worst I know of was something like 250,000. If we invaded Japan, we would have had to kill EVERY single person there. You've seen the videos of the civilians jumping off of cliffs, the crazy banzai charges. We'd have to kil 95% of the population in Japan. The Firebombing raids to scare them was needed.
Quote
Goto Google and type in "French military victories", then hit "I'm feeling lucky".
Here lie these men on this sun scoured atoll,
The wind for their watcher, the wave for their shroud,
Where palm and pandanus shall whisper forever,
A requiem fitting for heroes