Run your car on water??????

[LYNX]

I said it's not as important as having tests with the device on and off.

The reason why tests with the device on and off are important is that we want to know if hydrogen injection is important, or if the other work on the engine is what makes the difference.

Nobody would deny you can improve fuel consumption by working on your engine. If it was running too rich, for example, you can make a major improvement. The question is if taking some power to produce hydrogen, then injecting that hydrogen in to the engine, results in improvements in fuel consumption.

For that you need tests of your vehicle after it has been worked on, with and without the hydrogen device running.

I get what your saying and it makes sense but it's been done many ways.  These boosters actually work rather well on diesels also which don't have so many sensors.

From the intardnet

Recently I took part in the highway test of a vehicle driven twice over the same 200-kilometre course, on cruise control, at the same speed, once with the system off and once with it on. A temperature sensor from an accurate pyrometer kit had been inserted directly into the exhaust manifold, to eliminate thermal distortion from the catalytic converter. On average, the exhaust manifold temperature was 65°F lower during the second trip when the Hydrogen Generating System was switched on. The fuel consumption with the unit off was 5.13253 km/li. and 7.2481 km/li. with it on, giving a mileage increase of 41.2% and a fuel savings attributable to the unit of 29.18%

From the forgoing, the near absence of carbon monoxide and unburnt hydrocarbons confirms a very complete and much faster burn. Cooler exhaust temperatures show that more work is taken out during the power stroke. More torque from less fuel at the same R.P.M. verifies that higher pressure from a faster burn, acting through a longer effective power stroke, produces more torque and thus more work from less fuel. The considerable reduction in nitrous oxides (NOx} was a surprise. I had assumed that the extreme temperatures from such a rapid intense burn would produce more NO.,. Time plus high temperature are both essential for nitrous oxides to form. As the extreme burn temperatures are of such short duration and temperature through the remainder of the power stroke and the entire exhaust stroke, will, on average, be much cooler. With this in mind, it is not so surprising that less NOx is produced when the HGS is operating.

[Elfie]

forget the extrs $$ in your pocket every week. that's not really there either Big Grin

 

[Elfie]

So, you put full load on the alternator in order to decrease the load on the waterpump uhoh

No, no, no.

1) From previous posts, the alternator is never actually at full load. In Hornets case, he has a very high output alternator and won't ever come close to full load.

2) The engine running cooler is a fringe benefit of this system. It's like knowing you will be having cake, then being surprised with ice cream too. 

[Bronk]

So, you put full load on the alternator in order to decrease the load on the waterpump

Water pump going to still spin at the same speed.
However, heat robs power an efficiency. Most of the engines power is robbed by heat and friction. A reduction in heat should reduce power loss, thus raising efficiency. 

[CAP1]

So, you put full load on the alternator in order to decrease the load on the waterpump

it will not put full load on the alternator.

[Angus]

It will increase the lode for sure, since it runs lighter when idle.
However the waterpump is also there, and it will rotate in water at exact relation to rpm, the only benefit of a colder engine run being running in smaller circles (due to the water-lock being closed)..
So, sorry, don't see the magic that applies to only a car engine.

[Dichotomy]

I heard this guy on the radio the other day and he sounded pretty convincing.  Unfortunately automechanics is not my area of specialty so you guys be the judge www.alcoholcanbeagas.com by David Blume.  His basic premise is that with enough of the correct type of biomass you can distill it and run your car on alcohol.  I'd like to hear the opinions of the learned gentlemen of AH on this idea.

[CAP1]

It will increase the lode for sure, since it runs lighter when idle.
However the waterpump is also there, and it will rotate in water at exact relation to rpm, the only benefit of a colder engine run being running in smaller circles (due to the water-lock being closed)..
So, sorry, don't see the magic that applies to only a car engine.

it's not majic.

it's removing a portion of one fuel, and substituting it with another which is created "on demand" be an accessory running off of the engine. i does nothing more than supplement the vehicles fuel system. that's it.

 i don't understand how so many people in here don't understand this.


 i'm also thinking that once hornet posts his tests here, you're all going to find fault with that too.

 like i said earlier....those that have them installed must be imagining that extra money in their pockets.

[Hornet33]

I can only surmise that the people that don't get it, well just don't get it. I'm getting the impression that they do not have the technical knowledge of how an internal combustion engine and all the associated equipment operates and interacts with each other. Kinda reminds me of some people I know around here that don't even know how to change the oil in their cars, or that they even need too.

O'well such is life I suppose.

[LYNX]

vorticon,  Angus

Temperature can be partly understud from this quote


The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a likely source of those doubts. Meaning ...the law -would lead you to believe that it will certainly take more power to produce this hydrogen than can be regained by burning it in the engine. i.e. the resulting energy balance should be negative. If the aim is to create hydrogen by electrolysis to be burned as a fuel, the concept is ridiculous. On the other hand, if hydrogen, shortens the burn time of the main fuel-air mix, putting more pressure on the piston through a longer effective power stroke, and in doing so takes more work out, then this system does make sense.

Does it work? Independent studies, at different universities, using various fuels, have shown that flame speeds increase when small amounts of hydrogen are added to air-fuel mixes. A study by the California Institute of Technology, at its Jet Propulsion Lab Pasadena, in 1974 concluded:

The J.P.L. concept has unquestionably demonstrated that the addition of small quantities of gaseous hydrogen to the primary gasoline significantly reduces CO and NOx exhaust emissions while improving engine thermal efficiency

Cooler exhaust temperatures show that more work is taken out during the power stroke. More torque from less fuel at the same R.P.M. verifies that higher pressure from a faster burn, acting through a longer effective power stroke, produces more torque and thus more work from less fuel.

More bang for the buck....gotta admit Farayday was a bit of a dude but he wasn't burning the watermelon in a combustion engine....which were in there infancy at the time.

[Holden McGroin]

The alternator is ALWAYS generating electricity.

The alternator only runs when the engine runs. 

The engine runs on fuel. 

Therefore the alternator's energy source is the fuel tank.

[Hornet33]

The alternator only runs when the engine runs. 

The engine runs on fuel. 

Therefore the alternator's energy source is the fuel tank.

Well duh captian obvious. I didn't realize I had to spell that out for you, but OK. To make my statement perfectly clear for everyone. As long as the engine is running the alternator is producing electrical power.

Better?

[LYNX]

I heard this guy on the radio the other day and he sounded pretty convincing.  Unfortunately automechanics is not my area of specialty so you guys be the judge www.alcoholcanbeagas.com by David Blume.  His basic premise is that with enough of the correct type of biomass you can distill it and run your car on alcohol.  I'd like to hear the opinions of the learned gentlemen of AH on this idea.

here's your man

http://www.hydrogenfuelcellenergysystem.com/gw3h2_landing_selector.htm?pmc=GAW-1&gclid=CI3Q3o-H6JMCFQunQwodSQmvzA

the following link is about hydrogen but he does a demo of all fuels in the test car + shows his biomass thingy.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hFifFR-4C28

[CAP1]

vorticon,  Angus

Temperature can be partly understud from this quote


The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a likely source of those doubts. Meaning ...the law -would lead you to believe that it will certainly take more power to produce this hydrogen than can be regained by burning it in the engine. i.e. the resulting energy balance should be negative. If the aim is to create hydrogen by electrolysis to be burned as a fuel, the concept is ridiculous. On the other hand, if hydrogen, shortens the burn time of the main fuel-air mix, putting more pressure on the piston through a longer effective power stroke, and in doing so takes more work out, then this system does make sense.

Does it work? Independent studies, at different universities, using various fuels, have shown that flame speeds increase when small amounts of hydrogen are added to air-fuel mixes. A study by the California Institute of Technology, at its Jet Propulsion Lab Pasadena, in 1974 concluded:

The J.P.L. concept has unquestionably demonstrated that the addition of small quantities of gaseous hydrogen to the primary gasoline significantly reduces CO and NOx exhaust emissions while improving engine thermal efficiency

Cooler exhaust temperatures show that more work is taken out during the power stroke. More torque from less fuel at the same R.P.M. verifies that higher pressure from a faster burn, acting through a longer effective power stroke, produces more torque and thus more work from less fuel.

More bang for the buck....gotta admit Farayday was a bit of a dude but he wasn't burning the watermelon in a combustion engine....which were in there infancy at the time.

EXACTLY.

where is that from?

the nox went down, due to the lower combustion temps.

nox forms most when the combustion temp goes above 2500F. that's why most cars have egr systems now. they cycle a small amount of exhaust gas back intro the intake, and this cools the process, thus lowering nox.

 some cars do it through the three way cats.

just remember, each and every piece  of technology we take for granted today, was at one time said to be impossible.

 

[LYNX]

It's from a bastardisation of many independant pappers to support the cause 

http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/hydrogeninjection.html

useful links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_Fuel_Injection

http://gogreendev.com/docs/Investigation%20of%20the%20Effects%20of%20Hydrogen%20addition%20on%20performance%20and%20exhaust%20emissions%20of%20diesel%20engine.pdf

http://georgepehli.googlepages.com/HydrogenEnhancedCombustion_3_5_2006.pdf




but here's the real future

http://www.rexresearch.com/puharich/1puhar.htm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=bs-Uk511S_I