John Glenn said this....

[Saxman]

Well laser, that settles it. Next global economic crisis is yours to fix. Then in 70 years we'll all come back and talk about how bad YOU mucked it up.

[lasersailor184]

Gladly.  Give me the power and I'll fix it. 




I've always wanted a Wikipedia page of myself...

[FrodeMk3]

The stock market crash was going to happen.  And obviously Bush caused global warming which made the Dust Bowl.  You can't change that this was going to happen.  However FDR's policies rammed a recovery into the ground, where as someone should have just let it recover on its own.

Hindsight is 20/20.  But given how crappy of a job FDR did, it's very easy to think that any non-fascist would have done a much better job, including me.

Unfortunately, it was the economy running on it's own that ran itself into the ground. It wasn't gonna recover on it's own, without any action from the gov't. in this instance. Keynesian economic theory failed in 1929, and there was no reason to let it stay that way.

IMHO, we would have lost WWII as well, due to complete failure of our industry in the '30's, if F.D.R. wouldn't have stepped in. We were lucky to have him. It was Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover we should have never had.

[lasersailor184]

Unfortunately, it was the economy running on it's own that ran itself into the ground. It wasn't gonna recover on it's own, without any action from the gov't. in this instance. Keynesian economic theory failed in 1929, and there was no reason to let it stay that way.

IMHO, we would have lost WWII as well, due to complete failure of our industry in the '30's, if F.D.R. wouldn't have stepped in. We were lucky to have him. It was Calvin Coolidge and Herbert Hoover we should have never had.

Economies DO run themselves in the ground.  Think of it as natural selection in the business world.  Suddenly a crash happened and purged all those that made stupid decisions.  Soon people would get back to making the right decisions.

"Nature abhors a moron."

[Angus]

FYI the Nazis killed about the same amount of Jews as the population of Israel is today.
Did the USA mass-murder Japs on U.S. soil? Without a war? Naaa,,,and the comparison is tasteless at best...
Anyway, getting back to FDR and the depression, it is correct that unemployment wasn't "solved" before America had to mobilize. Now bear in mind that the army brings no economical benefit, you could just as well mobilize the unemployed into doing something useful, since the govt pays for the army anyway....
So it's the same thing really, - the need for mobilization due to war solved the matter basically in the same way as FDR is being critizised for....if you ever get it Lazer.....

[hlbly]

Hitler was bound by a promise to Japan to declare war on the US and after the Japanese’s attack on Pearl Harbor December 7th, 1941, he did on December 11th.

Wrong . Hitler was required to declare war if a signatory of the tripartite pact was attacked themselves .

[hlbly]

Not so German subs had been attacking & sinking US shipping long before the USA entered WW11. In fact US war ships had permission to sink German subs as well before the USA had officially entered the war. So I would say Germany had attacked the USA first.  (EDIT)->After reading all of the thread I see others have pointed out these facts.

Ok i skipped 2 of these already but enough .  The U.S.N. was escorting convoys that included war material when the Reuben James was sunk by Nazi U-Boat . The first act of hostility was whenNiblack fired on a DKM U-Boat . Don't get me wrong it was the right thing to do . We needed to be in the war . Man you guys need to stop this bs . I would like to see anyone of the conservatives say it was wrong to get involved in WW2  . Just because it was a democratic president that lead us . Guys we are ripping this country apart with this crap . I have a balanced view on things . We needed to go into Iraq for the weapons of mass destruction and Saddam . We needed to get the hell out as soon as we found him and realized the WMD were moved . We don't need no stupid arsed patriot act . We do need to monitor communications any way we can . < i am waiting with sources beyond my own eyes for the first moron who says there were no wmd's> . I don't give a rat crap about which party is which  I want the best for the US . Partisan bs like this is just stupid .

[lasersailor184]

FYI the Nazis killed about the same amount of Jews as the population of Israel is today.
Did the USA mass-murder Japs on U.S. soil? Without a war? Naaa,,,and the comparison is tasteless at best...
Anyway, getting back to FDR and the depression, it is correct that unemployment wasn't "solved" before America had to mobilize. Now bear in mind that the army brings no economical benefit, you could just as well mobilize the unemployed into doing something useful, since the govt pays for the army anyway....
So it's the same thing really, - the need for mobilization due to war solved the matter basically in the same way as FDR is being critizised for....if you ever get it Lazer.....

So it's fine if I illegally and immorally arrest and detain a random ethnic group of people, provided I don't kill them?


Unemployment wasn't solved after FDR's mobilization.  Busy Work is not a real job, especially when the government spends billions of dollars it doesn't have of my money to accomplish something that doesn't need to be done.

[Angus]

Unemployment was halved by a government act....projects.
Unemployment was nilled by a desperate act...drafting for a war that was already reality.

Now I'd want to look at which groups of people you refer to. Japs in WW2 on US soil?
And secondly, which would you pick, jail or torture+starvation+execution?

Not quite the same thing...

[Saxman]

It WAS wrong, but the point I've been trying to make is you're laying the blame for internment entirely at FDR's feet, which is a gross and unjust oversimplification of the situation. The ENTIRE nation was guilty, because this was the prevailing attitude of the entire nation at the time.

[lasersailor184]

Unemployment was halved by a government act....projects.
Unemployment was nilled by a desperate act...drafting for a war that was already reality.

Now I'd want to look at which groups of people you refer to. Japs in WW2 on US soil?
And secondly, which would you pick, jail or torture+starvation+execution?

Not quite the same thing...

Unemployment was halved by FDR creating an organization that mirrored the Hitler Youth in structure, beliefs and nastiness to outsiders.  Again, he made busy work.  Those weren't real jobs.  He wasted our money to give to other people to accomplish nothing.

[midnight Target]

The post office in our town says WPA across the front. I wonder what that means? Must be some kind of useless busywork or something.

[FrodeMk3]

We needed to go into Iraq for the weapons of mass destruction and Saddam . We needed to get the hell out as soon as we found him and realized the WMD were moved . We don't need no stupid arsed patriot act . We do need to monitor communications any way we can . < i am waiting with sources beyond my own eyes for the first moron who says there were no wmd's> . I don't give a rat crap about which party is which  I want the best for the US . Partisan bs like this is just stupid .

Be careful here, Hlbly-I myself could not agree with you more about party politics, but in this statement, you have to be able to prove that the WMD's that weren't destroyed after Desert Storm were moved or hidden. This topic is a thread in itself. And a few dozen corroded, inert Artillery shells buried in the desert isn't gonna count...

[FrodeMk3]

Economies DO run themselves in the ground.  Think of it as natural selection in the business world.  Suddenly a crash happened and purged all those that made stupid decisions.  Soon people would get back to making the right decisions.

"Nature abhors a moron."

There are rules and regulations' in business which, if abided by, are designed to keep the playing field square and help keep commercial competition healthy. We've seen the end result of the removal of some of these rules lately, as a matter of fact. The removal of the short-sell rule, which happened last year when the Dow-Jones Industrial average was at an all-time high of over 14,000 points, to now where it's struggling to stay over 11k, had a profound effect. And, for the country as a whole, we are heading to the time when if most of our industry's head overseas, we won't have any jobs' to effect an economic recovery with. FDR was lucky in the sense that he still had his major core corporations' still on U.S. soil to help anchor the war-production effort in WWII.

There has been mention made of employment gains' jumping by Men of military age joining up en-masse at the start of the war. It should be pointed out that the effect was two-fold. Our economy had been spooling up for some time, supplying arms' and materials to countries already in the war; Our entrance did two things, One of which was the already aformentioned mass enlistment. The other was the fact that not only did our war production need to be stepped up several magnitudes over what it had been, the workers' that had previously vacated those jobs' to put on a uniform were no longer available for production work. So, the need for workers' suddenly increased from both ends' after Dec. 1941.

[FrodeMk3]

So it's fine if I illegally and immorally arrest and detain a random ethnic group of people, provided I don't kill them?

Many on this very board would have no qualms' at all about doing that with Illegal immigrants' from Mexico. I do understand your point, because many Nissei were loyal citizens, with legal Visa's or green cards. However, the cirmumstances between the ethnic groups' and their country of origin are different, in this case. Also remember, that with the Nissei seperate from mainstream american society at the time, which you will admit didn't really have the touchy-feely liberal influence that it has today (As a matter of fact, I would say it was more approaching the tendency to lynch) it might have benefitted the Nissei to not be in the general public for a while.