why is weed illigal???

[Steve]

A)C) Having this argument with you is kind of pointless, boring and hypothetical.

Kind of like your assertion that it would be hard to tax. You actually have no idea.

You offer points. When counterpoints are offered  you refuse to address them as pointless. This is one of your human weaknessses. You simply do not have it in you that someone else might have an opinion which differs from yours... and is correct. You've admitted as much in another thread.  I've watched it in several discussions you are involved in.  You pontifcate to the point of being tiresome, then when someone else offers a counterpoint your uncontrollable need to be correct compels you to type a WOT that many people won't bother to read.

Bad news Zazen, you are wrong on this one. I don't know how you are going to live with it.

[Zazen13]

Think of it this way smoking weed will prevent glaucoma in the future. It's like a flu shot before flu season...it's just 100 times better.

Welcome to the irony of the pharmaceutical industry. If marijuana made you feel like crap and had a laundry list of side effects like coma, death, incontinence, blindness and impotence etc., but had even half the medical uses it does currently, the FDA would be jumping through fiery hoops to get it removed from the controlled substance lists so pharmaceutical companies could make billions selling it. Since it is "recreational" as well as medicinal it remains withheld from people, "for their own good" by those who "know what's best for us"...

[Zazen13]

Kind of like your assertion that it would be hard to tax. You actually have no idea.

You offer points. When counterpoints are offered you refuse to address them as pointless. This is one of your human weaknesses. You simply do not have it in you that someone else might have an opinion which differs from yours... and is correct. You've admitted as much in another thread.  I've watched it in several discussions you are involved in.  You pontifcate to the point of being tiresome, then when someone else offers a counterpoint your uncontrollable need to be correct compels you to type a WOT that many people won't bother to read.

Bad news Zazen, you are wrong on this one. I don't know how you are going to live with it.

Wow, dude, you obviously have some personal issue with me. That's cool, I really don't care, but you're just being silly. I participated in this thread for the same reason I do in any other. I have an idea or perspective I think others may find entertaining, interesting and thought provoking, agreeing with me is completely optional. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me in the slightest. To be perfectly honest, I like it. I love to be challenged intellectually. But, no offense intended, you aren't challenging at all to me, you're just rude, argumentative and petty, none of that adds anything to the conversation. You think it would be easy to regulate and tax, I don't...That's great, hopefully we'll both live long enough to find out who guessed correctly...Case Closed...

[Vudak]

Zazen, I still don't think it would be hard to tax, nor do I think many people would wind up growing their own stash...  

First of all, it would be much, much cheaper for me to roll my own cigarettes.  I do not do this on account of the inconvenience, mess, hassle, etc.  I have better things to do with my time.  So do most other people who smoke cigarettes.  It won't be any different with marijuana.

Second of all, even if the assets taken per raid are much more valuable than the crop itself, that does not take into account the fact that drug raids do absolutely nothing, zip, zilch, nada, to stop the flow of drugs in the first place.  OK - *maybe* it causes a few hours inconvenience as one goes through the network shopping around, but on the whole, it solves nothing.  This is because of the sheer volume of product being moved about that the government never lays its hands on.  That's a lot of transactions that are not being intercepted.

Also, drug raids are sporadic sources of income for the government.  Many completely fail and do nothing save get some police officers overtime checks.

OTOH, drug deals are non-stop transactions going on every hour of every day, all across the country.  One year's taxation of these transactions is going to both be more stable than the raid income, and quite probably more profitable.  Especially considering, once again, the "inconvenience motive" for people who aren't particularly industrious to go to a store and pony up slightly more cash than they would need to have a stable crop for their own personal use.

Of course the government can't admit this for two reasons.  First of all, there's really no way to put hard statistics on it, since most people won't answer surveys.  Secondly, once the true numbers came out, they would show plain as day that the government's "War on Drugs" has been hopelessly lost.

[VansCrew1]

it's only illegal if you get caught. 

[sluggish]

I could listen to you guys all day.

[Gunthr]

Cannabis is illegal in the US because our government passed a law making it so.  (I infer that the gubmint believed at the time that this substance is harmful to individuals and to society.)

The reason it remains illegal, tho with increasingly milder sanctions against its use and possession, is because not enough voters want to legalize the substance. (I infer that the gubmint may have changed its original beliefs about cannabis.  I also infer that there is not a large enough voter sentiment to overcome inertia and abolish cannabis laws...  maybe too busy smoking it to care? Maybe most believe we don't need to encourage the use of another mind altering substance.)

I know one thing for sure, gubmint will insist on getting a piece of the action - one way or another.  If they don't outlaw it, they will insist on regulating it.  Like gambling.

[Baitman]

With HYDROPONICS and GROW LIGHTS you can grow tomatoe plants anywhere even in you closet.

[Zazen13]

Zazen, I still don't think it would be hard to tax, nor do I think many people would wind up growing their own stash...  

First of all, it would be much, much cheaper for me to roll my own cigarettes.  I do not do this on account of the inconvenience, mess, hassle, etc.  I have better things to do with my time.  So do most other people who smoke cigarettes.  It won't be any different with marijuana.

Second of all, even if the assets taken per raid are much more valuable than the crop itself, that does not take into account the fact that drug raids do absolutely nothing, zip, zilch, nada, to stop the flow of drugs in the first place.  OK - *maybe* it causes a few hours inconvenience as one goes through the network shopping around, but on the whole, it solves nothing.  This is because of the sheer volume of product being moved about that the government never lays its hands on.  That's a lot of transactions that are not being intercepted.

Also, drug raids are sporadic sources of income for the government.  Many completely fail and do nothing save get some police officers overtime checks.

OTOH, drug deals are non-stop transactions going on every hour of every day, all across the country.  One year's taxation of these transactions is going to both be more stable than the raid income, and quite probably more profitable.  Especially considering, once again, the "inconvenience motive" for people who aren't particularly industrious to go to a store and pony up slightly more cash than they would need to have a stable crop for their own personal use.

Of course the government can't admit this for two reasons.  First of all, there's really no way to put hard statistics on it, since most people won't answer surveys.  Secondly, once the true numbers came out, they would show plain as day that the government's "War on Drugs" has been hopelessly lost.

I'm not disagreeing with you on the point that the "war on drugs" does more harm than good. But, I think you underestimate the scale of siezures. The DEA siezes hundreds of ships and aircraft annually then sells them off to subsidize their budget, that doesn't even include proceeds from real estate and bank accounts and that's just one Federal agency.

But, marijuana is a nuanced and widely varying product, it has grown moreso in that regard over the years due to the small, quality conscious growers. There are two main species, indica and sativa, and an almost infinite number of strains within those two species that can easily be hybridized and cross-matched. The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation of quality and variety in terms of the recreational experience itself. If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse to inferior commercial marijuana. This would be especially true if commercial marijuana cultivation homogenized the "small shop" hybrids into one blend designed for consistency of potency moreso than preserving nuanced variation.

Alcohol and nicotine, our only real examples to contrast, may differ in taste based on brand and type, but the overall effect on the user is basically identical. Marijuana is far more complex than that. I am not sure massive scale cultivation could capture that variety properly unless the pricing for specialty types was set on a premium basis in which case, again, more people would opt to just grow it themselves depending on how expensive and heavily taxed the premium blends are.

[Zazen13]

With HYDROPONICS and GROW LIGHTS you can grow tomatoe plants anywhere even in you closet.

I smoked a tomato once, I coughed up blood for a week! 

[VansCrew1]

dont smoke cat nip......

[Vudak]

I'm not disagreeing with you on the point that the "war on drugs" does more harm than good. But, I think you underestimate the scale of siezures. The DEA siezes hundreds of ships and aircraft annually then sells them off to subsidize their budgets, that doesn't include real estate and bank accounts.

The point is, the more impressive the scale of the siezures, the more impressive the scale of the actual product finding the streets.  Airplanes and ships cost big money - yet they're looked at as acceptable write-offs by the cartels/dealers, etc., because if they weren't - they'd obviously stop being siezed, as they'd stop coming.

But, marijuana is a nuanced and widely varying product. There are two main species, indica and sativa, and an almost infinite number of strains within those two species that can easily be hybridized and cross-matched. The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation in terms of quality and variety in terms of the type of recreational experience. If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse. This would be especially true if commercial marijuana cultivation homogenized the "small shop" hybrids into one blend designed for consistency of potency moreso than preserving nuanced variation.

Marijuana, for the reasons you stated, is much like wine, and like wine, I suppose some people would choose to go it on their own.  I don't think you'll find such people are the majority.

I do think it would be great to be able to walk into a store, browse a selection of different strains, and try one out, knowing for a FACT that it is what the label says (and not what the dealer hypes it up as being...  You know how many guys have "Purple Haze" out there?   ).

It would also be great to be able to just drive down the road to a store as opposed to playing phone tag and then sitting around waiting for a connect to come through.

I honestly believe if marijuana were openly sold in stores, that is where the vast majority of marijuana would be bought.  It's convenient, guaranteed, and simple.

Alcohol and nicotine, our only real examples to contrast, may differ slightly in taste based on brand and type, but the overall effect on the user is the same. Marijuana is far more complex. I am not sure massive scale cultivation could capture that properly unless the pricing for specialty types was set on a premium basis in which case, again, more people would opt to just grow it themselves depending on how expensive and heavily taxed the premium blends are.

I again doubt that many would grow it themselves (I know I wouldn't), but I'm certain that some people would start successful small businesses much like they do with small wineries today.  Some would eventually become very successful, others would eventually fold, but the whole "promote small business" line we keep hearing over and over would mesh very well with legalized marijuana cultivation.

[Baitman]

dont smoke cat nip......

Funny thing happened when I was young to make me agree with you

[Elfie]

The effect on the user is a pretty wide variation of quality and variety in terms of the recreational experience itself.

 

If you combine the ease of cultivation with that compelling connoisseur factor more people will grow their own for this reason alone even if the net cost is equal or worse to inferior commercial marijuana

A small minority will always grow their own. We live in a *I want it now* society. The majority would buy from the stores just for the sake of convenience.

[Elfie]

I honestly believe if marijuana were openly sold in stores, that is where the vast majority of marijuana would be bought.  It's convenient, guaranteed, and simple.

Exactly.