Operation Hailstone ??? Idea ???

[Heater]

All,

This may sound strange but, for as long as I have been involved with AW/WB's/AHII I have never setup a Scenario, however I am willing to learn and help out in anyway I can, with this said, I was looking @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hailstone and was thinking would it be worth it?

Let me know what you think, and who knows what will happen.



BTW did you all know that HiTech is a PUTZ!

Cheers

[Krusty]

So the entire bulk of the US pacific fleet, 4 heavy carriers, 4 light carriers, 7 battleships and probably thousands of smaller ships, with 500+ US naval planes, make a surprise attack on an atoll where the defenses have already retreated to safer waters, bomb and blow up everything they can with almost no opposition, and then go home?

Seems to me a boring-as-hell idea for a scenario/FSO.

Over 250 Japanese aircraft were destroyed, mostly on the ground. Many of the aircraft were in various states of assembly, having just arrived from Japan in disassembled form aboard cargo ships. Very few of the assembled aircraft were able to take off in response to the U.S. attack. Several Japanese aircraft that did take off were claimed destroyed by U.S. fighters or gunners on the U.S. bombers and torpedo planes.

The U.S. lost twenty-five aircraft, mainly due to the intense anti-aircraft fire from Truk's defenses.

You can simulate the same thing by trying to dive bomb enemy fleets offline. The only thing you're flying against is the AAA in both cases.

[Easyscor]

I gather the Japanese won't be withdrawing their assests to Palau a week before the attack.

[Krusty]

Again with the 100% fictional what-ifs?

No thanks. There're enough that are already grounded in at least SOME historic context that we don't need to fabricate more.

P.S. Even if the 250 planes weren't disassembled or in crates, that's still an overwhelming slaughter 2:1 with the US having probably 10:1 ship superiority.

[Easyscor]

 
That doesn't seem to stop you killing Ju88s in Rangoon among some other claimed deficiencies. 

Designers do what they can to create fun events, and fortunately they have thick skins or there wouldn't be many events.

[Krusty]

The betty bombers actually were there to hit Rangoon is the major difference.

Here we're talking about massacering cargo ships, a small handful of the lightest warships the Japanese could offer, almost EVERY ship was moored, docked, or inside this atoll, and all of the 250 aircraft were destroyed on the ground.


Let's call a spade a spade. I don't care how creative you get, there's nothing short of Tom Clancy fiction that can make that into a fair, balanced, or fun FSO/scenario setup.

There are so many hundreds and thousands (hundreds of thousands??) of other setups with an attack and a defense that are far far far more suited for use in AH setups than this. Just because it happened in history (or is posted on wiki) doesn't mean it has any business being in a FSO/setup. Folks don't always seem to grasp that.

[Heater]

I guess the Name Krusty Fits... I now know why I have never wanted to do this before!

So the entire bulk of the US pacific fleet, 4 heavy carriers, 4 light carriers, 7 battleships and probably thousands of smaller ships, with 500+ US naval planes, make a surprise attack on an atoll where the defenses have already retreated to safer waters, bomb and blow up everything they can with almost no opposition, and then go home?

Seems to me a boring-as-hell idea for a scenario/FSO.


You can simulate the same thing by trying to dive bomb enemy fleets offline. The only thing you're flying against is the AAA in both cases.

[Easyscor]

 

Don't ever expect folks to say "great idea." My policy is to develop an event I think would be fun to participate in, on either side, and go for it.

[Krusty]

If an idea is great (or good, or even decent) I'll say as much.

Heater, with my tongue planted firmly in cheek, I must say "Lighten up, Francis!"

One of your first ideas and you come up with a totally 1-sided event that wouldn't be fun in any way for the axis, and would probably bore the allies to tears, and... well... You can do better.

In fact, please DO so! Do do better. Come up with an idea that takes into account team balances, side numbers, plane setup, the fun and playability on BOTH sides, and most of all it has to be something either side can win based on the skill and leadership of their respective pilots.

[1pLUs44]

*Cough* Kuban Air Battles *Cough*

[Guppy35]

If an idea is great (or good, or even decent) I'll say as much.

Heater, with my tongue planted firmly in cheek, I must say "Lighten up, Francis!"

One of your first ideas and you come up with a totally 1-sided event that wouldn't be fun in any way for the axis, and would probably bore the allies to tears, and... well... You can do better.

In fact, please DO so! Do do better. Come up with an idea that takes into account team balances, side numbers, plane setup, the fun and playability on BOTH sides, and most of all it has to be something either side can win based on the skill and leadership of their respective pilots.

You mean like DGS?

Not to worry Heater,  Krusty was cranky about that one too

[Krusty]

Not about the basic setup, Dan. Bombers, escorts, and attackers. It doesn't get better than that. I had issues with the details.

[Fencer51]

You had issues with darn near everything other than one side was Axis and the other was Allies! 

[Krusty]

No, I did not.

Back on topic, a bomber raid with escorts protecting it and attackers hitting it can have many pilots on both sides engaged and participating, whereas a single sneak attack on a wholly undefended atol doesn't. See the comparison? Figure out the setting, the map, the planes, the details, etc, how you like, but the basic idea behind the scenario/setup is important.

Usually sneak attacks are bad ideas for scenarios/FSOs. This is because (usually) sneak attacks worked in real life by minimizing the enemy's response, leading to a 1-sided victory with no opposition. It tends to not translate into FSOs very well. There are a few exceptions.

[Easyscor]

You're changing the subject Krusty. This thread is about Operation Hailstone and your objections have run out of steam.

If you wined the clock back one week, before history had the Japanese removing their assets, and install our CiC, then you comply with history.

They expected an attack, which is why they removed their assets, so you don't get to call it a sneak attack.

In every aspect this could be a snapshot, if not a FSO or Scenario.

Your objections are unfounded, and your negativity is uncalled for.