Author Topic: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?  (Read 2968 times)

Offline Hornet33

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #105 on: August 27, 2008, 09:55:53 AM »
One F-117 has been lost in combat, to the Yugoslav Army. On 27 March 1999, during the Kosovo War, the 3rd Battalion of the 250th Missile Brigade under the command of Colonel Zoltan Dani, equipped with the Isayev S-125 'Neva' (NATO designation SA-3 'Goa') anti-aircraft missile system, downed a F-117A callsign "Vega 31," serial number 82-806 with a Serbian improved Neva-M missile. According to NATO Commander Wesley Clark and other NATO generals, Yugoslav air defenses found that they could detect F-117s with their radars operating on unusually long wavelengths. This made them visible on radar screens for short times.

Reportedly several SA-3s were launched from approximately 8 miles out, one of which detonated in close proximity to the F-117A, forcing the pilot to eject. Though still classified, it has long been believed that the F-117 possesses no radar warning indicator, so the pilot's first indication of an incoming missile was likely seeing its flame. At this distance and combined speed the pilot had about 6 seconds to react before impact. According to an interview, Zoltán Dani was able to keep most of his missile sites intact by keeping them on the move, and had a number of spotters spread out looking for F-117s and other NATO aircraft, he also personally supervised the modification of his targeting radar to increase its wavelength. The commanders and crews of the SAMs guessed the flight paths of earlier F-117A strikes from rare radar spottings and positioned their SAM launchers and spotters accordingly. It is believed that the SA-3 crews and spotters were able to locate and track F-117A 82-806 visually, probably with the help of infra-red and night vision systems. He also claimed that his battery shot down an F-16 as well.

The F-117 pilot survived and was later rescued by U.S. Air Force Pararescue personnel. However, the wreckage of the F-117 was not promptly bombed, due to possible media fallout from news footage of civilians around the wreckage. The Serbs are believed to have invited Russian personnel to inspect the remains, inevitably compromising the then 25-year old U.S. stealth technology. Since the United States did not destroy the wreckage, the remains can still be seen today at the Museum of Aviation in Belgrade close to Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport. An error of assumption was made by many as to the identity of the pilot. While the name "Capt Ken 'Wiz' Dwelle" was painted on the canopy, it was made public in 2007 that the actual pilot was Lt Col. Dale Zelko, USAF.

Some American sources acknowledge that a second F-117A was also damaged during a raid in the same campaign, and although it made it back to its base, it supposedly never flew again.



What the Serbs did was modify their radars to operate on a longer pulse for the sole purpose of detecting a stealth fighter. They also had intel as to the probable flight path of the plane and placed their missile batteries along the likely flight path. They were also able to spot the plane visually. The missile did not make a direct hit, but was able to damage the plane enough to force the pilot to eject when it did detonate close to the plane.

All in all the Serbs got real lucky by trying some very unorthodox methods, and modifying their equipment.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline Hangtime

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #106 on: August 27, 2008, 10:09:18 AM »
Thanks!! Hugely appreciate the synopsis!

... now; I wonder how much of an edge we really have... 10 years after the first documented case of tagging one with a field modified radar.

ruh-roh.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #107 on: August 27, 2008, 10:53:01 AM »
Hey Hornet...Thanks for the info!

But, none of that was sensitive information, was it? I'd hate to think of someone like Boroda taking it to his friends in Defense... :noid

Offline Hornet33

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #108 on: August 27, 2008, 10:56:00 AM »
With the newer aircraft like the B-2 (not really new, but way more advanced than the F-117) the F-22, and the F-35 coming online with all their built in capabilities over the F-117, probably not too much to worry about. All the newer planes carry radar warning recievers, active and passive electronic counter meassures, and decoys (chaff and flares). The F-117's didn't have those systems because when they were built none of the "current" technology at the time could see them.

All in all though when you look at the record of the F-117, it's still spectacular. Those planes put in almost 30 years of service before the last one was officialy retired the first of this month, flew hundreds of combat missions into some of the most heavliy defended airspace in the world with only one combat loss. It's been replaced by the F-22 which is a huge leap forward capabilities. It's faster, longer range, more firepower, harder to detect, more manuverable, and multi mission capable.

In the case of the Serbs, well they got lucky and proved the old theory, "Even a blind squirel will sometimes find a nut".
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline Hornet33

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #109 on: August 27, 2008, 10:56:34 AM »
Hey Hornet...Thanks for the info!

But, none of that was sensitive information, was it? I'd hate to think of someone like Boroda taking it to his friends in Defense... :noid

Open source, it's all on the internet.
AHII Con 2006, HiTech, "This game is all about pissing off the other guy!!"

Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Mutual Defense Treaty with Poland.......huh?
« Reply #110 on: August 27, 2008, 12:09:54 PM »
With the newer aircraft like the B-2 (not really new, but way more advanced than the F-117) the F-22, and the F-35 coming online with all their built in capabilities over the F-117, probably not too much to worry about. All the newer planes carry radar warning recievers, active and passive electronic counter meassures, and decoys (chaff and flares). The F-117's didn't have those systems because when they were built none of the "current" technology at the time could see them.

All in all though when you look at the record of the F-117, it's still spectacular. Those planes put in almost 30 years of service before the last one was officialy retired the first of this month, flew hundreds of combat missions into some of the most heavliy defended airspace in the world with only one combat loss. It's been replaced by the F-22 which is a huge leap forward capabilities. It's faster, longer range, more firepower, harder to detect, more manuverable, and multi mission capable.

In the case of the Serbs, well they got lucky and proved the old theory, "Even a blind squirel will sometimes find a nut".

You know, it's funny...It hardly seems' like 30 years. I remember when I was younger seeing a stealth crash on TV, near Tehachapi I believe. And now, it's headed for retirement.