He111

[1pLUs44]

Hmmm.

Would the secret password be MAKE THE THING ALREADY!!!!      Probably not.  Thought I'd try!

What would be the differences between the 111 and the Ju88?  I havent studied the two that much.

Sorry for the double post, but... I bet the secret password is.... Sheep...

[glock89]

Sorry for the double post, but... I bet the secret password is.... Sheep...

shh it a serect but i never tell. 

[Serenity]

Ju88 has 4 rearward firing guns that can concentrate on the same target that sits dead-aft.

He111 has 2 guns that could do the same, and there's question of how high the ventral rear gun can aim upwards to track a con perfectly "flat" and with the curve of the fuselage there's question how flat the dorsal gun could depress as well.

The Ju88a4 had a flexible nose gun which we don't for some reason. The He111 has this as well.

The only difference is the He111 has a single 7mm gun in a very small window with narrow field of fire to the left and right of the dorsal position. These were ineffective and often removed in the field. The 20mm MG/FF had limited ammo and limited range of motion (meant for hitting shipping targets as the bomber flies over, if I recall?)

So as far as defenses go, the Ju88 is faster with more ord (while being faster) and more likely to defend itself if attacked.

He111 is in no way better than the Ju88. It is cooler, though, and more important for many scenarios.

What model are we talking about in the Heinkel?

Field of fire was improved as models went on, there was a remotely controled 7.9mm in the back of the H-series IIRC, etc. 20mm was for AA as well, IIRC.

[Old Sport]

The Heinkel will be fine for early war, and probably survivable in mid-war. ...

Everyone wants the He-111, and I can promise you, when or if it arrives in AH, everyone will use it until they realize it's cannon fodder. ...

It's slow, unarmed, and can't carry anywhere the payload of planes already in the game.

A single 7.9mm in the nose, another on the spine, and one, sometimes two (depending on the version) in the underbelly tunnel. These are the same 7.9mm guns everyone refers to as BB guns.

It is rare to see a Spit Mk I or Hurri Mk I - armed only with BB guns - in the LWA's but you do occasionally. They are nevertheless part of the plane-set, apparently for historical reasons and not for their performance in the LWA's.

[JHerne]

Don't get me wrong...

I'm in favor of the He-111, for historical scenarios and early-war arenas...

But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG?

If the next scenario after the Battle of Britain is say... The Battle for Singapore and Dutch East Indies , are people going to freak because we don't have Brewster Buffalos, Curtiss CW-21s, or Japanese Nells?

Probably not. I can understand people wanting this aircraft. Yes, it's historically important. Yes, it's iconic. But it'll only be useful to a small percentage of the players. If that's enough reason, then I'll be the first one to fly it.

J

[Motherland]

But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG

Me410? Would be nice, probably see a lot of usage in the late war.
Ki45? Sounds like an EW bird... wikipedia has it's top speed at a mere 336 mph.
P61? Maybe, but it certainly won't be used in it's intended role, unfortunately (same with the Me410).
SB2C? For late war? lol.

are people going to freak because we don't have Brewster Buffalos

Yes, actually.
That's irrelevant either way, however, as the Battle of Britain was one of the largest aerial battles of the war and the Battle of Singapore was... well... not.

[Serenity]

But since the majority of the players are in the late-war arenas, would it not make sense to allocate the time and resources to something like a Me-410, Ki-45, P-61, SB2C, S-100 class Schnellboat, LST, towed artillery/AA/ATG?

And if HTC were to build only to this set of people, only allocating resources to the kids who t3h ub3n3$$ of late-war planes, they would lose a lot of the more rounded guys. While this won't have a big monetary input, the crowd who asks for these earlier birds is also the crowd who organizes and runs these snapshots, scenarios, etc.

[JHerne]

Ki45? Sounds like an EW bird... wikipedia has it's top speed at a mere 336 mph.

Ki-45 'Nicks' were used extensively as bomber destroyers during the '44-'45 bombing campaign of mainland Japan, armed with oblique firing 20mm, as well as 20mm and 37mm cannon in the nose.

SB2C? For late war? lol.
Why is that funny? It carried more payload, faster, and was designed to replace the SBD Dauntless. It was extensively used by the USN in '44 and '45, and replaced SBDs on all Essex-class CVs.


Yes, actually.
That's irrelevant either way, however, as the Battle of Britain was one of the largest aerial battles of the war and the Battle of Singapore was... well... not.

Regardless, at what point will you be satisfied? And finally, I'm amazed that Wikipedia can make anyone into a military historian. Course, we all know everything we read on the internet is fact...

[Motherland]

Never claimed to be. Looked up the stats on Wiki so I didn't have to scan through one of my books to get them... whether the Ki45's top speed is 336, 326, or 346, that's still painfully slow for a late war bird. And I know Wiki is often wrong, that's why I stated that I got it from Wikipedia in the first place.
It's a convenience thing.

Just looked it up again in a book I have, it states again the Ki45 Kai-C's top speed was 336 MpH at 16,405 feet. That and that the Kai-C was a nightfighter variant which made up 477 of the total 1,675 aircraft.

Why is that funny? It carried more payload, faster, and was designed to replace the SBD Dauntless. It was extensively used by the USN in '44 and '45, and replaced SBDs on all Essex-class CVs.

How many people do you see flying the Dauntless? If someone has a choice between the SB2C or the F6F-5 or F4U1D, guess what they're going to pick? The big, heavy, slow divebomber or the aircraft that becomes a very competitive late war fighter aircraft once you drop it's bombs?

[Serenity]

Regardless, at what point will you be satisfied? And finally, I'm amazed that Wikipedia can make anyone into a military historian. Course, we all know everything we read on the internet is fact...

Not everything revolves around uberness. We need some EW planes. Ive seen Hurri Is PWN P-51s and La-7s in the MAs. All it takes is a little skill.

[Anaxogoras]

Some wikipedia articles are well researched, and some aren't.  In my experience, the military hardware articles have a high degree of accuracy, and are well-cited (mostly because they have so little political content and no one is interested in messing with them).  Whenever you see "citation needed," you know to take it with a grain of salt.

It would be equally silly to automatically disbelieve what you read on Wikipedia, too.

[RMrider]

This thread was off the first page toooo long.

BRING ON THE 111 !!! 

 

[RMrider]

again off front page too long.

Dont tell me everyone is losing interest in the amazing plane. 

[Motherland]

For great justice-!

[RMrider]

Dam your fast bubi.