beginner fighter

[BaldEagl]

Spit IX. 

The XVI is unstable at low speeds and wants to snap roll when slow.  The XIII's roll rate is horrendous in comparison to the other Spits (except the I) and requires a lot of rudder authority and anticipation of your opponent's moves.

The IX, while a bit slower than the XIII and XVI is smoother to fly and the most forgiving.  It will still allow you to fly TnB, BnZ and energy fights until you understand your preferred fighting style and half the planeset is faster so you'll be challenged to learn to fight and win rather than run (and it will give you a good chance to do so).

[whiteman]

wrong thread 

[Murdr]

Starting off in a spit16 will do nothing to teach you how to out maneuver a better plane in an inferior one.

Which is good, because that's not really on the "beginner" adjenda.  There are plenty of more basic skills to tackle first.  Like keeping sight of the bogie.  Making the plane go where you need it to go while looking anywhere but forward.  Like living long enough to gain some spatial awareness, and reading the 3d positioning from the cockpit view.  Learning the flight model, and getting a feel for riding the edge of controled flight, while still focusing primary attention to what's going on outside the cockpit.  If one can't out maneuver an inferior plane with a better one first, then there's no hope of doing it vice-versa without troubleshooting their mistakes.

[Hazard69]

If one can't out maneuver an inferior plane with a better one first, then there's no hope of doing it vice-versa without troubleshooting their mistakes.

Very well put Murdr Sir

[Rich46yo]

Thing about the P-38 is it does everything fairly good.

Its a very good Jabo and carrys a lot of ords. It turns better then a fair amount of other planes, climbs better then a fair amount, dives better then anything, rolls very well, has great range and last the old girl can take some damage and make it back home. It has decent visibility once you get used to it and anything within 800 yrds of its fierce nose guns is a candidate for a splash. Its also a great perk builder.

But mostly, and maybe its just me, but when Im in a 38 and see another plane my brain goes into E=MC2 mode and I almost instantly figure a weakness to try and exploit with the Lightening. There is a weakness the 38 can exploit in almost every other airplane. Thats the real strength of flying the Yank multi-use tools of WW-ll.

I hope one day I can get real good in the 38. I believe its a great starters airplane, and even better then the Spits.

[goober69]

Thing about the P-38 is it does everything fairly good.

Its a very good Jabo and carrys a lot of ords. It turns better then a fair amount of other planes, climbs better then a fair amount, dives better then anything, rolls very well, has great range and last the old girl can take some damage and make it back home. It has decent visibility once you get used to it and anything within 800 yrds of its fierce nose guns is a candidate for a splash. Its also a great perk builder.

But mostly, and maybe its just me, but when Im in a 38 and see another plane my brain goes into E=MC2 mode and I almost instantly figure a weakness to try and exploit with the Lightening. There is a weakness the 38 can exploit in almost every other airplane. Thats the real strength of flying the Yank multi-use tools of WW-ll.

I hope one day I can get real good in the 38. I believe its a great starters airplane, and even better then the Spits.

ummm rich the 38 is not That good in a dive, maybe the L but like the 109's you really have to watch how fast you are getting or you can lawn dart.  so i would not say that "it dives better than anything"
now a candidate for that would be the p47 at full load or the f4u. talk about acelration point a 47 nose down and you can hit 500+ mph in a few seconds

[Rich46yo]

I only fly the L. And its great in a dive, tho its true you have to watch the speed indicators.

[Hazard69]

I only fly the L. And its great in a dive, tho its true you have to watch the speed indicators.

Negative Rich. All P38s suffer from compression at a relatively low speed. A good diver would be as mentioned above a P47, 190, F6F etc. Much more stable and doesn't compress until u hit some really hi speeds (500mph).

A P38 does accelerate fairly quickly in a dive, but I wouldn't count diving as one of its strengths. Maybe against something like a 109 but against something like a P47, if u diving, u pretty much dieing.

The P38L's advantage over the 38J & G in this matter are the dive flaps which assist in recovery by pitching nose up.
 

[goober69]

^^^ yea what he said
only much better than i did <S>

[Anaxogoras]

Clearly, all new pilots should fly the Spitfire XVI.

[Yenny]

D9 all the way!

[Rich46yo]

Negative Rich. All P38s suffer from compression at a relatively low speed. A good diver would be as mentioned above a P47, 190, F6F etc. Much more stable and doesn't compress until u hit some really hi speeds (500mph).

A P38 does accelerate fairly quickly in a dive, but I wouldn't count diving as one of its strengths. Maybe against something like a 109 but against something like a P47, if u diving, u pretty much dieing.

The P38L's advantage over the 38J & G in this matter are the dive flaps which assist in recovery by pitching nose up.
 

Thats funny cause Im almost always able to stretch out in a dive, gain separation, and then go into attack mode.

Im not talking about "running", since I dont do it no how.

[Hazard69]

Thats funny cause Im almost always able to stretch out in a dive, gain separation, and then go into attack mode.

Im not talking about "running", since I dont do it no how.

Exactly! That's it. You gain separation. That's due to the quick acceleration of the P38. It accelerates faster than most other aircraft.
Try diving at steep angle, like 70 to 90 degrees (straight nose down). You will find that controls freeze up rather quickly, due to the 38s acceleration. Whilst a 109 may compress at lower speeds than a 38, it takes the 109 longer to get to those speeds (at least I seem to think so) which means more time to maneuver to a killing position.
Now try a 90 degree dive in a P47 or a F6F. They are rock stable. In these planes the pilot can dive straight down as an evasive maneuver. This forces you to break off your attack (else you run the risk of lawn darting) cause when you start compressing, hes still completely controllable.

[Anaxogoras]

Whilst a 109 may compress at lower speeds than a 38, it takes the 109 longer to get to those speeds (at least I seem to think so) which means more time to maneuver to a killing position.

While the 109 is no doubt a poor diver, the above is technically false.

The 109 can pull out of steep, fast dives with the help of elevator trim because it's not compression it suffers from, but heavy controls.  I've surprised a good number of runstangs when they go into a dive without a lot of roll and find me still on their 6 and closing after they level out on the deck.

The 38, on the other hand, is almost uncontrollable once compression starts in.  The pilot could move the controls freely without effect.  For this reason I still don't understand why I see so many P-38J's when the L is clearly the superior aircraft.

Because we don't feel stick forces, very few seem to understand that poor high speed control isn't always compression, and fwiw, compression is far worse than heavy controls.

[Murdr]

The 109 can pull out of steep, fast dives with the help of elevator trim

As can a P-38.

Because we don't feel stick forces, very few seem to understand that poor high speed control isn't always compression, and fwiw, compression is far worse than heavy controls.

Compressibility has been commonly used to describe numerous high speed handling problems, even though not every example it is applied to has anything to do with airflow shock waves.  To the contrary, my observation is that it is fairly common knowledge on these boards that the 109s problem is related to stick force, as opposed to planes like the P-47 and P-38 having issues with mach tuck.