Where's All of the P47 Pilots hiding?

[Anaxogoras]

It's not that they assume the pilot is a novice, it's that they assume that even if the pilot is good, a low and slow jug is an easy kill.  In fact, the assumption has some merit, doesn't it?

[MjTalon]

It's not that they assume the pilot is a novice, it's that they assume that even if the pilot is good, a low and slow jug is an easy kill.  In fact, the assumption has some merit, doesn't it?

Not necessary. If the P47 even has at least 5k Alt she's still a threat. But in the hands of a novice, a low and slow jug is in fact a easy kill.

[BnZ]

It's not that they assume the pilot is a novice, it's that they assume that even if the pilot is good, a low and slow jug is an easy kill.  In fact, the assumption has some merit, doesn't it?

Not necessarily true, but often true.

Of course, as another alluded to, its not really the 109s and 190s that make life difficult for a Jug down low-on any given day a Jug stands a good chance with either. It is more the planes the Jug never historically had to fight anyway and lots of them that give the jug difficulty. Dumping E to force a scissoring fight with a pursuer? Works okay, Jug is incredibly stable near its stall speed with flaps down. The fast mover you just made overshoot isn't the problem, the horde of Spixteens and N1Ks behind him is.

I think the P-47M should be made available as a perked, or maybe even an unperked ENY 5 plane and the P-47N's ENY should be raised to 8, just to bring more 47s into the LW MA.

Funny story. The other day a large group of P-47D-11s came over to attack Knitland. Now these guys were no 56th, and even though they had some alt, they quickly lost advantage and got slaughtered. Thing is, TWO of the ones I took down were shot further and stolen as they were spinning into the sea. Really demonstrates the pirhanna mentality another poster alluded to.

[Getback]

I fly one every now and then. Even practiced in one the other day. I like it. However some planes are better at other things. I still respect a good stick in a p47.

[Anaxogoras]

I think the P-47M should be made available as a perked, or maybe even an unperked ENY 5 plane and the P-47N's ENY should be raised to 8, just to bring more 47s into the LW MA.

That the P-51 has an ENY of 8 and the P-47N an ENY of 5 is proof that ENY values need to be redone.

[bozon]

I routinely see my knight countrymen ignore higher P-51s and Spits in order to dive on and gang a low P-47; and that goes double if the P-47 is already engaged with a single bandit.

That's the best thing about the jug - Your pray comes to you.

[1pLUs44]

I feel like I'm the only one flying besides my squadron on rook nation. Any other P47 fans/pilots/squadrons on the dark side? 

Would see if we could put something together but i know J.U.G.S is supposed to be flying today i think. Any P47 pilots squadless atm? Just wondering.... 

Also if there is a JUGS meeting today i have something special planned. 

Hey Talon, I'm a pretty big P-47 fan. I usually fly the P-47D25 now as it is my squads historical plane and their historical skin. If you're willing to do it, one day out of the week, we could all get together and fly. 

[Hajo]

Jug does many things well.....including out turning G6 and up BF 109s.  It only does one thing great and that is Zoom Climb.

The Jug also out turns a P51.  As well as 190s.

A low Jug that has some speed is a dangerous Jug.

By sheer mass if at same speed anything that pulls up to outclimb it will get run over shortly...watch for the overshoot if you;re in the Jug.
You'll end up in front of your prey in their sights.

Be patient in it.  Don't ask it to do something it can't.  Dictate the fight, don't be forced into fighting the other crafts fight.

[LilMak]

MjTalon. I'm not hiding. 85% of the time I'm smacking spits and niks around in my -D40. I'm ususally this guy...

routinely see my knight countrymen ignore higher P-51s and Spits in order to dive on and gang a low P-47; and that goes double if the P-47 is already engaged with a single bandit.

and always willing to demonstrate what two good Jugs can do as wingmen. I'm a member of the J.U.G.S. but can't ever get up on Sundays because of schedule conflicts.

Anytime you see me up, Just give me a holler and I'll be happy to wing up with ya.

LilMak

[Anaxogoras]

Jug does many things well.....including out turning G6 and up BF 109s.

You must be talking about speeds above 250mph.  200mph and slower the 109 series eats P-47s for a light snack.

[BnZ]

  It only does one thing great and that is Zoom Climb.

I don't think it betters a Pony, Hog, or La7 here. I did some testing on some planes awhile back. These were the F4U-1A, the 109K4, the 190D9, La7, P51D, P38J, and P47N. My procedure was to dive until I was skimming the waves, level until the speed bled down to 400mph IAS, then do a 4-G pull up until straight vertical, then use shift-X to hold the planes there until they ran out of airspeed and stalled. I don't remember the exact numbers off hand, but I do remember that everyone of these planes zoomed back up to between 6000-6700 before the stall. Is this right? Something wrong with my procedures? I would have thought there would be more spread than this in zoom climb.

The Jug also out turns a P51. 

True, but of course you realize this is a product of a bug with the Mustang's turning. Both Allied testers and Axis combat pilots are clear on the point, the Pony could turn tighter than the Jug. No offense to Jug fans, think this bug has been around long enough and needs to be fixed.

[Bronk]

I don't think it betters a Pony, Hog, or La7 here. I did some testing on some planes awhile back. These were the F4U-1A, the 109K4, the 190D9, La7, P51D, P38J, and P47N. My procedure was to dive until I was skimming the waves, level until the speed bled down to 400mph IAS, then do a 4-G pull up until straight vertical, then use shift-X to hold the planes there until they ran out of airspeed and stalled. I don't remember the exact numbers off hand, but I do remember that everyone of these planes zoomed back up to between 6000-6700 before the stall. Is this right? Something wrong with my procedures? I would have thought there would be more spread than this in zoom climb.

True, but of course you realize this is a product of a bug with the Mustang's turning. Both Allied testers and Axis combat pilots are clear on the point, the Pony could turn tighter than the Jug. No offense to Jug fans, think this bug has been around long enough and needs to be fixed.

Try pushing the nose over till 0 g is reached and report back.

[BnZ]

Try pushing the nose over till 0 g is reached and report back.

A plane proceeding straight up IS already unloaded, producing no lift, thus the meter registers 0.  The wing is no longer oriented to oppose the force of gravity. If the wing is producing any lift at all at this pitch attitude, then it is not going straight up, it is starting to gradually loop over. Combat trim seems to want to trim the plane to pull 1G of lift all the time, so if you are zooming straight up with CT, you have to actually hold a little forward on the stick or use shift+X to avoid this.

Is there any place where the flat-plate drag equivalents for various WWII airplanes are listed? It would be interesting to compare their weight/total drag ratios.

[Hajo]

OK don't believe me.  Your choice.

And yes slow a P47 will out turn half the 109s and all the 190s.  It will also out turn a P51.

Best talk to widewing about that gents.  He did the tests to verify that fact.

And in the Zoom the P47 will out zoom anything strictly because of it's mass.

Basic Physics gents and also proven.

If you're flying the P47N model you are at a handicap below 30K.  And if you're flying it 30K you are a Rook looking for a pick...or have been afk for over 15 minutes.  The N is a dog below 20K and has the worst climb rate of all the Jugs below 20K.

[Spikes]

Hajo what would you say is the best out of the three (D11, D25, D40) in the zoom from say 8-15K?