Author Topic: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge  (Read 3558 times)

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2008, 11:18:05 AM »
Yeah, this thread is a great reminder.  Differ in opinion and watch them tell you your dumb and only they are right.  Yowzers.

No.....


Quote
Drill for the crude and the cng big time... we need them right now...  the rest will follow.

This is what you don't get. We need the oil, and we need it now. We will need the oil for a long time to come. We don't have a replacement for plastics yet and guess where that comes from?

We do need to keep working on bio diesel, synthetic fuels. better/cheaper ways to produce hydrogen, safer nuclear plants etc etc. Bit we still need the oil and always will until we can find something to replace plastics. We can probably make synthetic lubricants to replace the petroleum based lubricants, but so far, to my knowledge there is nothing even on the horizon to replace plastics.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Baitman

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 678
      • Strike Manufacturing Inc.
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2008, 12:03:53 PM »
Coal has been used in diesel engines since the beginning of the diesel motor. What part of WE CAN DO IT NOW is hard to understand.

Mechant ships after WWII have used coal in their diesels to cross the oceans.

WE CAN DO IT NOW
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"
You can be one but NOT both...

Fully Fledged Practising Atheist Bishop

Offline Kaw1000

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1159
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2008, 12:12:56 PM »
WE CAN DO NATURAL GAS NOW!!!
See Rule# 5 on just about every thread!

Offline Baitman

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 678
      • Strike Manufacturing Inc.
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2008, 12:28:02 PM »
There is many different energies we can do now but all I hear is poke another hole in the barrel.

Anyone ever consider that the energy crises that we are in might be engineered by the companies that will profit from drilling in the AWR. :noid

If large corporations get to drill in a park or WR what will stop them from mining coal or using the geothermal geysers in the national parks too. :O
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"
You can be one but NOT both...

Fully Fledged Practising Atheist Bishop

Offline john9001

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9453
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2008, 12:32:54 PM »
baitman, you don't understand, they want to find more barrels, not "poke more holes" in the same barrel.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2008, 12:42:12 PM »
Coal has been used in diesel engines since the beginning of the diesel motor. What part of WE CAN DO IT NOW is hard to understand.

Mechant ships after WWII have used coal in their diesels to cross the oceans.

WE CAN DO IT NOW

Coal dust injected into the engines?
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2008, 12:43:46 PM »
WE CAN DO NATURAL GAS NOW!!!

Sort of.....still need conversion kits and a larger distribution system to be put in place if we are going to fuel all our vehicles with it.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2008, 12:44:42 PM »
Quote
There is many different energies we can do now

So start naming energies that are ready now......
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Baitman

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 678
      • Strike Manufacturing Inc.
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2008, 12:51:57 PM »
baitman, you don't understand, they want to find more barrels, not "poke more holes" in the same barrel.

You don't understand, it is an analogy. The world only has so many gallons of oil. Say in a large barrel. The faster that it flows out the sooner it will be dry.

I am a driller. I understand this stuff.

We have to break the dependance of fossil fuels. :aok
"Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"
You can be one but NOT both...

Fully Fledged Practising Atheist Bishop

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2008, 12:55:04 PM »
You don't understand, it is an analogy. The world only has so many gallons of oil. Say in a large barrel. The faster that it flows out the sooner it will be dry.

I am a driller. I understand this stuff.

We have to break the dependance of fossil fuels. :aok


You keep mentioning Coal.....that is a fossil fuel......
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Nashwan

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2008, 01:23:32 PM »
Quote
They have the ability to produce many times more a day but they don't why? To keep demand high as well as prices. The oil is here & now but they have a lot of wells capped & only produce enough to get the Government perks.

No, that doesn't make sense. Oil companies make money by producing oil, not by sitting on it. If any of them had large enough market share it might be worthwhile to reduce production, but none of the western oil companies are anywhere near big enough.

Quote
I remember when in the '80s Reagan started some government synthetic fuels production program and gave enormous incentives for oil production - the result?  In 1981 when Reagan took office Oil was about $70/Barrel He got all of these incentives into play and by 1982 Oil had fallen below $50/Barrel and by 1985, the price had fallen to about $20/Barrel. Oil remained low and plummeted to $12/Barrel in 1998 under Clinton.

Why did this happen?  Because we looked and acted like we were serious about solving our problems ourselves, so OPEC flooded the market, forcing prices down and Our synthetics operation which can produce oil from coal at $40/Barrel was deemed a waste of money.

OPEC certainly didn't flood the market with oil.

In 1981 world oil production was 59.5 million barrels a day, 23.3 million barrels of which was produced by OPEC.

By 1985 production was down to 57.5 million barrels a day, with OPEC producing just 16.9 million.

What happened is that the early 80s recession, coupled with the price hikes, greatly reduced demand.

Quote
Our cars and trucks run off of OIL products right now... We cannot wait for synthetic/alternative energy, we must ease the financial burden on our People, Trucking Companies and Airlines right the hell NOW.

There is nothing the west can do to reduce oil prices NOW. Drilling in the OCS will take several years to increase world oil production by 0.25%. ANWR will take a decade to increase production by 1%. And of course, Saudi can cut production by that amount to keep the price high, as they have in the past.

The sad fact is western oil companies control only a tiny proportion of the world's oil reserves, with various despotic countries controlling most. There is nothing we can do to force them to produce more oil.

Quote
We cannot touch oil right off our east coast BUT the damned communist chinese and cubans have partnered to slant drill oil wells (Slanted toward US BTW) just 54 miles off our own coast.

Don't believe everything you read in an internet chain letter. Cuba has leased some exploration blocks 60 miles off the Florida coast, but not to Chinese companies, and there haven't even been exploratory wells drilled yet.

Quote
The Bakken Oil Fields holds an INCREDIBLE estimated 100 to 400 BILLION barrels of oil.

But how much of it is recoverable? According to the USGS it's 3.65 billion barrels, a report commissioned by the state said 2.1 billion barrels.

That's going to add up to less than 1 million barrels a day. The world currently uses 86 million barrels a day.

There's no good reason not to produce the oil, and the argument that it will take years seems to me even more incentive to start now, because we can't predict what the situation will be like in 10 years time. But don't make the mistake of thinking that the US can increase its oil production enough to make much difference to prices, either now or in the future. The only thing the US can do that will affect prices substantially is to develop alternatives to oil.

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2008, 01:33:40 PM »
Quote
ANWR will take a decade to increase production by 1%

The governor of Alaska says 5 years.

Quote
There is nothing the west can do to reduce oil prices NOW.

When Bush lifted the executive ban on offshore drilling the price dropped.

Quote
And of course, Saudi can cut production by that amount to keep the price high, as they have in the past.

And of course, if they do......no more F-15's for them. No more American weapons.....in fact.....just tell them....if you do, we bomb YOU......

Quote
There's no good reason not to produce the oil, and the argument that it will take years seems to me even more incentive to start now, because we can't predict what the situation will be like in 10 years time.

Hard to argue any of that.

Quote
But don't make the mistake of thinking that the US can increase its oil production enough to make much difference to prices, either now or in the future. The only thing the US can do that will affect prices substantially is to develop alternatives to oil.

It makes us less dependent on foreign oil. Anything we can do to decrease our dependency on others for our energy needs is a good thing.

Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Holden McGroin

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8591
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2008, 03:02:05 PM »
Coal dust injected into the engines?

That has been done.

Quote
An engineer at Defense Research Technologies Inc. of Rockville, Md., a research concern specializing in fluid control, has patented a device that makes it possible to power a diesel engine with a coal slurry.

The inventor, Allen B. Holmes, said the device could be an economical alternative to petroleum fuels for large engines like those used in ships and locomotives.

The coal slurry consists of roughly equal parts of water and coal dust, and it must be sprayed into a combustion chamber as a fine mist in order to be burned.
Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2008, 03:12:54 PM »
How come when we're talking about US dependence on middle eastern oil, we keep hearing world oil market, world production levels, OPEC, etc.

How about we look at the immediate supply OIL problem as our problem.. not the worlds.. and we solve our problem using what resources and trade leverage we have with oil producers that are NOT middle eastern and are a lot closer to home?

I'm convinced we can get off middle eastern oil TODAY.. and we CAN get on Canadian, Mexican and South American contracts TODAY.

When the hell will our legislature stand up and issue the directive that we will no longer allow middle eastern oil into this country?

The only way to make the middle east irrelevant is to stop buying middle eastern oil.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Donzo

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
      • http://www.bops.us
Re: ANWR = Arctic National Wildlife Refuge
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2008, 03:19:07 PM »
Only about 12% of our oil comes from the Middle East...the rest comes from Canada, Venezuela, Mexico, Nigeria, Algeria, Ecuador, and England.

So I don't think it would be hard to just shift that 12% to other sources (Not a big fan of Venezuela, though) or better yet, just fill the 12% with OUR OWN OIL!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 03:21:13 PM by Donzo »