Christianity, is it

[Hangtime]

Might doesn't make right! Just ask the Democrats when they won the popular vote but lost the election...

"Your pleas for orthodoxy have been rejected by the pope. " Nice one... 

Hey, not so long ago, you'd be put to the 'question' just for breathing. Let alone asking.

and, I think there's extra innings in purgatory for being a democrat, too.

[Elfie]

put to the 'question'

heh.....have you by chance read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series of books? 

[JAGED]

Not politics....

As a Just God, he cannot make exceptions for infants simply because they are infants. We are all guilty, even the newborn. A judge that lets one thief go free but jails the next, is that judge handing out justice equally? Of course not.

Notice it doesn't say only adults and adolescents, it says for all have sinned.

Elfie, wouldn't the world be a better place if this didn't have to be?

I submit the following for your consideration...   


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Christian_theology#Original_sin


"To place the term original sin in context: God created man perfect with free will and gave man a direction to follow. Man (Adam) and Woman (Eve) chose rather to disobey God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thus changing the "perfect" mode of existence of man to the "flawed" mode of existence of man. This flawed nature and all that has come from it is a result of that Original Sin. Because we participate in humanity, we share in the sin of Adam because like him, we are human. The union of humanity with divinity in Jesus Christ restored, in the Person of Christ, the mode of existence of humanity, so that those who are incorporated in him may participate in this mode of existence, be saved from sin and death, and be united to God in deification. Original sin is cleansed in humans through baptism or, in the case of the Theotokos, the moment Christ took form within her.

However, this view differs from the Roman Catholic (Augustinian) doctrine of Original Sin in that man is not seen as inherently guilty of the sin of Adam. According to the Orthodox, we inherit the consequences of that sin, not the guilt. The difference came about because Augustine interpreted a Latin translation of Romans 5:12 as meaning that through Adam all men sinned, whereas the Orthodox reading in Greek interpret it as meaning that we all sin as part of the inheritance of flawed nature from Adam. Therefore, the Orthodox Church does not teach that we are born deserving to go to hell and Protestant doctrines such as Predeterminism that result from the Augustinian understanding of Original Sin are not a part of Orthodox belief."

[Hangtime]

heh.....have you by chance read Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series of books? 

Nope.. heard of it tho. Was referring to the Inquisition.

[Xargos]

Ever noticed what an apple looks like on the inside when you cut it in half?  Just saying.

[trax1]

That wasn't the question.  Paraphrasing what I understood to be Skyrock's questions:

1.  Will you "burn in Hell" as Christiandom defines it if you deny God.  No, because Skyrock's frame of reference is an "eternal torment" type of Hell.  JW believe in a merciful and loving God, not one of vengeance.  They would point out that "Hell" is the English equivalent of "Hades" or "Sheol", which is the common grave of mankind, not a place of torment.  Therefore, being thrown into the Lake of Fire means utter destruction, and not eternal torment.

2.  That not believing Jesus is the Son of God would buy you said defined Hell.  Already mostly answered in #1, but in addition, the Bible refers in Revelation to the the Resurrection of "the righteous and the unrighteous."  Those who were "unrighteous" will be given another chance to accept God's authority over mankind, with Jesus at the head of the Kingdom.  Those who accept it will be given everlasting life.  Those who reject it will be given the second death / oblivion.

This is how they differ in major ways from the majority of Christiandom.  They find no Bible basis for a Trinity, do not accept the concept of Hell as a place of everlasting torment, and do not believe your "soul goes to Heaven" when you die, but rather you lie asleep in death until the time of the Resurrection.

Which is why I find your claim to have family who are practicing Jehovah's Witnesses to be a bit puzzling -- if you do, then you should know that they do not look for a Heavenly existence at all, but rather the prospect of everlasting life on a paradise Earth.

I don't think you understood my answer right, I wasn't saying that JW believe that if you don't believe in God or Jesus you goto hell, I was saying that they believe that if you don't believe in God or Jesus you don't get into heaven, or as they call it "Paradise", I know that JW's don't believe in a hell.

Like I said I've been to the Kingdom Hall's, and the bible studies, and have had lots of long conversations with my sister about her faith, about how they don't believe in celebrating any holidays, except for wedding anniversaries, and the reasoning behind why they don't celebrate any of the other holidays.   

[Baitman]

As a Just God, he cannot make exceptions for infants simply because they are infants. We are all guilty, even the newborn.

Notice it doesn't say only adults and adolescents, it says for all have sinned.

What????? even a baby one day old  ...... What has he done that was a sin????????????

Guess if he died at 1 day old he would go to hell..... WTF

WARPED man real WARPED

[E25280]

Almost bedtime, so I will only take a couple of these (from page 2)

I don't know what to make of these...
Women

1 Timothy chapter 2:

Also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion. Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.

Jesus

Matthew 15:22-26:

A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

Bit harsh

Two interesting passages, but also two that leave out important context.

In chapter 2, Timothy lays out what could be referred to as a "chain of command" to use AH lingo. The line goes from God to Jesus to "kings and all those in high station" to men to women.  Each person "down the line" is to be submissive to those higher up, with the authority ultimately eminating from God.  The next verse after the last line you quoted says "For Adam was formed first, then Eve," indicating the arrangement as chosen by God.

You stop the Mathew quote about Jesus a couple of lines early.  Here is what verses 27 and 28 say:

She said: "Yes, Lord: but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters."  Then Jesus said in reply to her:  "O woman, great is your faith; let it happen to you as you wish."  And her daughter was healed from that hour on."

So far from a bit harsh.  Jesus demonstrated that any with faith can / should / will be helped.

[ian5440]

What????? even a baby one day old  ...... What has he done that was a sin????????????

Guess if he died at 1 day old he would go to hell..... WTF

WARPED man real WARPED

+1

if there is a god, there is no way any body/being can punish an unknowing infant

[JAGED]

+1

if there is a god, there is no way any body/being can punish an unknowing infant

They don't! See my previous post...

[Baitman]

I believe that Christianity is a story of Astronomy.... It is the Greatist story ever told. No Christian can explain the dino's. Or as they burn gasoline explain how the oil was made. How coal was formed from peat bogs (brown coal). Heck even explain geology to me. Love to hear that one

[Elfie]

Jaged I'll answer with this verse:

Rom 5:12  Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:--

[Elfie]

No Christian can explain the dino's.

Read the book of Job. 

I believe that Christianity is a story of Astronomy

I've seen this referenced several times in this thread. I have yet to see anyone back that up with their beliefs or information.

[potsNpans]

+1

if there is a god, there is no way any body/being can punish an unknowing infant

In light of full disclosure I adhere to a reformed(as in reformation) understanding. If a scripture passage like Psalm ch51:verse5...Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity; And in sin did my mother conceive me. The writer is referring to himself, and gives the condition of his nature from birth. This is not an isolated bit of scripture, but is part of the teachings of scripture. The problem is the unknowing infant doesn't posses the correct knowledge of how or the will to be what is required.  1 Corinthians 2:14 Now the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; and he cannot know them, because they are spiritually judged. This also refers to mankind's condition as sinful creatures. All this will lead to the central theme of the bible, which is Jesus. Thats my story and I'm stik'in to it
 

[Baitman]

I've seen this referenced several times in this thread. I have yet to see anyone back that up with their beliefs or information.

If you believe then you need to watch this movie and disprove it.

Watch all three videos.....

It will open your eyes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kla-BcN8u8Q&feature=related

WATCH IT!!!!!!!!