Author Topic: Christianity, is it  (Read 3961 times)

Offline Elfie

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #225 on: September 09, 2008, 11:43:37 PM »
WATCH IT!!!!!!!!

As potsnpans has said already.....

Quote
Well I got as far as 7 1/2 min of part 1.  They should of used fact check.com. The date Dec. 25th they sayas Jesus birth and the 3 stars called 3 kings with the star of the east? The 25th date is a catholic invention(and I can explain that to be specific). The mention of 3 kings is also absent from the bible but wise men from the east is mentioned, and far as the star of the east thats irrelevant. Broad generalities are prolific so far but of this spirit of the age(zietgeist). I give it another shot to see what there talking about

Another thing he doesn't mention is the reference to crucifixion 3000 yrs ago in Egypt. Crucifixion was practiced among Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians and Romans from about 600 BC to 337 AD when Emperor Constantine outlawed the practice.

At 4:05 into the first video there are already to many inaccuracies in their theory.
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Guppy35

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #226 on: September 09, 2008, 11:45:46 PM »
I just waded through all this and wanted to throw out my 2 cents.   I was raised Lutheran.  My uncle is a Lutheran minister, and my mom's husband is as well so these discussions happen often.

To me the danger of any religion, Christianity included, is that it sets out to define something in a complicated way, that in the end is very simple.

I was raised on the Good Samiritan.  I can get around the rest of the bible stuff, but this one sticks as it puts the responsibilty on me.  

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: (the parable starts here) "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."


I have the choice to be the best person I can be.  No excuses for why I don't do the right thing.  No verses to let me condemn someone else.  Very basic.  Treat people right.  My actions will speak for me.

I don't like that religion tries to let us off the hook, or put the responsibilty for how I act on someone or something else.  God doesn't make me do it anymore then the devil.  The gift I have is free will and choice.  I always hated back in youth group days that the kids who prayed the loudest, and were the most 'devout' in public, were generally the ones who were the jerks in every day life.  Church was almost the weekly, get out of jail free card.  I see people use God as their reason for killing, hurting, condemning others all in the name of religion.

To me it's irrelevant whether Jesus rose from the dead or not.  His message was what mattered.  I think he'd shake his head in wonder at us all trying to hide behind him.  I do recall reading him saying essentially, 'look just because I can do good things, doesn't mean you can't.  Go out there and do it yourself."

After my kids died in the car accident, I really battled it.  I'd hear the minister talk about Jesus doing miracles and I'd get mad.  If he was here and had the power to save one families child, why did mine have to die?  There is no lesson in all this.  It didn't make me better.  If he had the power to take away suffering, why didn't he?

In the end I think it's best to seperate faith from religion.  Christianity or any other religion at it's minimal best, is all about being good to others.  There are no exceptions to this, outside of what man throws in there to justify his cruelty.

I can't help but believe is something bigger than all this.  My kids were proof of this.  My wife and the love we've shared all these years is proof.  The good people I deal with in the world are proof too.

In the end, a loving God, in whatever form you see 'him', is just that.  As a father, I never expected my children to stop and worship me, or to bow to my greatness.  It seems silly to me that God would expect that of us.  As a father he'd have my back and by giving me the freedom to choose, show me that 'he' trusts me enough to be the best person I can be, without having to threaten me with all kinds of bad things to try and make me be good.

That's man at work.  If you are good you get a cookie, if you are bad, you are going to suffer.  

I remember back in college I was working in a Nursing Home and took care of a minister's wife.  She often threw bible verses around to comdemn people.  One day I looked at her bible and noted it had been translated 48 times in English, and numerous times in Hebrew.  I then remembered that game we used to play where we'd line up and one person would start the story and whisper it to the next.  By the end of the line the story had almost completely changed.

again it comes down to me having the choice to be the best person I can be.  Nothing more, nothing less.  That personal accountablity stuff is tough to argue with as is the lack of excuses for why I can't be responsible for me.  It sucks, but I am.  No one makes me do anything beyond what I choose to do.

I can't use God, Christianity or any other religion as my excuse.  And in the end, how i live my life will speak much more loudly then anything else.
Dan/CorkyJr
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Offline Hangtime

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #227 on: September 10, 2008, 12:17:59 AM »
Quote
I can't use God, Christianity or any other religion as my excuse.  And in the end, how i live my life will speak much more loudly then anything else.

Amen.
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Offline 1pLUs44

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #228 on: September 10, 2008, 12:20:20 AM »
Religon isn't about facts, it's about beliving. If someone cant prove it, they dont wanna belive in it nowadays.
But it kinda stinks to just think that as soon as you die, you rot in the ground if thats what you belive.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 12:23:40 AM by 1pLUs44 »
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Offline Baitman

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #229 on: September 10, 2008, 12:22:13 AM »
As potsnpans has said already.....

Another thing he doesn't mention is the reference to crucifixion 3000 yrs ago in Egypt. Crucifixion was practiced among Persians, Seleucids, Carthaginians and Romans from about 600 BC to 337 AD when Emperor Constantine outlawed the practice.

At 4:05 into the first video there are already to many inaccuracies in their theory.

OR is the inaccuracies in the bible story :O

I can't use God, Christianity or any other religion as my excuse.  And in the end, how i live my life will speak much more loudly then anything else.

Very true live life and be the best person you can be no matter the color of your skin or belief. :aok
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You can be one but NOT both...

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Offline Elfie

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #230 on: September 10, 2008, 12:30:17 AM »
Quote
OR is the inaccuracies in the bible story

The inaccuracy concerning crucifixion at least, is a secular inaccuracy.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline trax1

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #231 on: September 10, 2008, 12:31:42 AM »
Quote
No Christian can explain the dino's.

Read the book of Job.  ;)
What does the book of Job have to do with dinosaurs?  I'm just curious if you can expand on this as I have never read Job.

Because this is something I've always had a hard time believing could have happened if there was a God who created man in his own image, because why would he create the universe, then wait about 10 billion years, create the Earth, then start out populating the Earth with small simple forms of life, that gradually get more complex, resulting in the dinosaur age, then within the last hundred thousand years or so finally decide to put man on Earth, but not before he put earlier forms of human life like Neanderthals, and other pre-human looking species that we've found skeletal remains of.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Elfie

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #232 on: September 10, 2008, 12:40:57 AM »
These passages in Job are generally believed to describe great creatures that no longer exist today, possibly some type of dinosaurs.

Quote
Job 40:15  Behold now, behemoth, which I made as well as thee; He eateth grass as an ox.
Job 40:16  Lo now, his strength is in his loins, And his force is in the muscles of his belly.
Job 40:17  He moveth his tail like a cedar: The sinews of his thighs are knit together.
Job 40:18  His bones are as tubes of brass; His limbs are like bars of iron.
Job 40:19  He is the chief of the ways of God: He only that made him giveth him his sword.
Job 40:20  Surely the mountains bring him forth food, Where all the beasts of the field do play.
Job 40:21  He lieth under the lotus-trees, In the covert of the reed, and the fen.
Job 40:22  The lotus-trees cover him with their shade; The willows of the brook compass him about.
Job 40:23  Behold, if a river overflow, he trembleth not; He is confident, though a Jordan swell even to his mouth.
Job 40:24  Shall any take him when he is on the watch, Or pierce through his nose with a snare?

Quote
Job 41:1  Canst thou draw out leviathan with a fishhook? Or press down his tongue with a cord?
Job 41:2  Canst thou put a rope into his nose? Or pierce his jaw through with a hook?
Job 41:3  Will he make many supplications unto thee? Or will he speak soft words unto thee?
Job 41:4  Will he make a covenant with thee, That thou shouldest take him for a servant for ever?
Job 41:5  Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? Or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
Job 41:6  Will the bands of fishermen make traffic of him? Will they part him among the merchants?
Job 41:7  Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons, Or his head with fish-spears?
Job 41:8  Lay thy hand upon him; Remember the battle, and do so no more.
Job 41:9  Behold, the hope of him is in vain: Will not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
Job 41:10  None is so fierce that he dare stir him up; Who then is he that can stand before me?
Job 41:11  Who hath first given unto me, that I should repay him? Whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine.
Job 41:12  I will not keep silence concerning his limbs, Nor his mighty strength, nor his goodly frame.
Job 41:13  Who can strip off his outer garment? Who shall come within his jaws?
Job 41:14  Who can open the doors of his face? Round about his teeth is terror.
Job 41:15  His strong scales are his pride, Shut up together as with a close seal.
Job 41:16  One is so near to another, That no air can come between them.
Job 41:17  They are joined one to another; They stick together, so that they cannot be sundered.
Job 41:18  His sneezings flash forth light, And his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
Job 41:19  Out of his mouth go burning torches, And sparks of fire leap forth.
Job 41:20  Out of his nostrils a smoke goeth, As of a boiling pot and burning rushes.
Job 41:21  His breath kindleth coals, And a flame goeth forth from his mouth.
Job 41:22  In his neck abideth strength, And terror danceth before him.
Job 41:23  The flakes of his flesh are joined together: They are firm upon him; they cannot be moved.
Job 41:24  His heart is as firm as a stone; Yea, firm as the nether millstone.
Job 41:25  When he raiseth himself up, the mighty are afraid: By reason of consternation they are beside themselves.
Job 41:26  If one lay at him with the sword, it cannot avail; Nor the spear, the dart, nor the pointed shaft.
Job 41:27  He counteth iron as straw, And brass as rotten wood.
Job 41:28  The arrow cannot make him flee: Sling-stones are turned with him into stubble.
Job 41:29  Clubs are counted as stubble: He laugheth at the rushing of the javelin.
Job 41:30  His underparts are like sharp potsherds: He spreadeth as it were a threshing-wain upon the mire.
Job 41:31  He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: He maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
Job 41:32  He maketh a path to shine after him; One would think the deep to be hoary.
Job 41:33  Upon earth there is not his like, That is made without fear.
Job 41:34  He beholdeth everything that is high: He is king over all the sons of pride.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #233 on: September 10, 2008, 12:41:48 AM »
There is light and there is darkness.
There is material and there is spiritual.
There is proof and there is faith.
Through the darkness of the material proof we are guided by the spiritual light of faith.
I am not a follower of any specific religion, but i recognise these things, and through the spiritual faith i will follow my light, or forever wallow in the material darkness trying to find proof in vain.
Emotions are nothing but spiritual fabric woven around the material proof that we exist, yet we do not need evidence to know emotions are real.

« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 12:43:27 AM by mechanic »
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Offline Elfie

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #234 on: September 10, 2008, 12:42:29 AM »
Quote
Because this is something I've always had a hard time believing could have happened if there was a God who created man in his own image, because why would he create the universe, then wait about 10 billion years, create the Earth, then start out populating the Earth with small simple forms of life, that gradually get more complex, resulting in the dinosaur age, then within the last hundred thousand years or so finally decide to put man on Earth, but not before he put earlier forms of human life like Neanderthals, and other pre-human looking species that we've found skeletal remains of.

The Bible doesn't give a time table of millions of years. It gives a timetable of days.
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline SkyRock

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #235 on: September 10, 2008, 02:21:48 AM »
There is light and there is darkness.
There is material and there is spiritual.
There is proof and there is faith.
Through the darkness of the material proof we are guided by the spiritual light of faith.
I am not a follower of any specific religion, but i recognise these things, and through the spiritual faith i will follow my light, or forever wallow in the material darkness trying to find proof in vain.
Emotions are nothing but spiritual fabric woven around the material proof that we exist, yet we do not need evidence to know emotions are real.


BatfinkV 22 vs 8-12 :aok

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Offline SkyRock

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #236 on: September 10, 2008, 02:26:41 AM »

On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" In reply Jesus said: (the parable starts here) "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.' "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."



:aok

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Offline Holden McGroin

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #237 on: September 10, 2008, 03:07:35 AM »
If we are into quoting verse, here's my 2 cents

Armaments, 2:9-21
     
And Saint Atila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying,
'Oh, Lord, bless this thy hand grenade that with it thou mayest blow
thy enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.'  And the Lord did grin, and
people did feast upon the lambs, and sloths, and carp, and anchovies,
and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and fruit bats, and large --

And the Lord spake, saying, 'First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin.  Then, shalt thou count to three, no more, no less.  Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shalt be three.  Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three.  Five is right out.  Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thou foe, who being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.'"

Holden McGroin LLC makes every effort to provide accurate and complete information. Since humor, irony, and keen insight may be foreign to some readers, no warranty, expressed or implied is offered. Re-writing this disclaimer cost me big bucks at the lawyer’s office!

Offline Nilsen

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #238 on: September 10, 2008, 03:09:31 AM »
old school astrology?

Maybe, or a religion based on a 2000+ year old theater script. Not that far from a more modern day script made by George Lucas.

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Offline Guppy35

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Re: Christianity, is it
« Reply #239 on: September 10, 2008, 04:39:33 AM »
I just got the word that my wife is coming home.  She's been in Liberia the last 6 weeks where she used her nursing skills to teach and work in a little hospital called Phebe, in the middle of nowhere.

She went because she couldn't stand the thought of being home for the third anniversary of our son and daughter dying in the car crash.  She felt like the best way to fight back was to try and make a difference in the world.  Over that time she saw all kinds of things we in the US don't see.  Lots of death and dying, starvation, horrible burns and accidents, children dying etc.  She worked her tail off.  Her grief fueled her desire to help.  on our wedding Anniversary, August 20th a 4 day old baby was brought to the hospital with a double cleft lip and pallete.  My wife spent time trying to help the mother learn to care for the little boy.  But that family's faith told them that evil spirits had changed the baby causing the deformity and tradition would have them kill the child.  They were talked out of that, but then disappeared.  The little boy being left at the hospital.  My wife went into the room where the babies were and saw a local nurse giving the baby water.  She asked why not formula?  The nurse replied the hospital didn't have any and they were just keeping the baby's tummy full of water til he died.

The easiest thing to do would be to not get involved.  This gal I married, despite the grief, is not wired that way.  The doctors say the only way the baby lives is if you take him.  So she did.  24/7 for the last three weeks, she's fed him through a nasal tube, kept him clean, warm, spent sleepless nights as he fought pneumonia, all the while working the adoption in Liberia that now gives us a son, Matthew David Johnson. August 28th, the worst day of our lives, she's alone with Matthew, and they bond.  She cries for Andy and Chris and for this little guy whose had such a rough start, but still has a chance.    The last week and a half it's been fighting the US imigration folks to let her bring him home so we can get him taken care of.  It's amazing how many hoops one must jump through to save a baby.

With luck I get to meet my son on Thursday.

I don't tell the story looking for praise or attaboys.  I use it as an example of the Good Samaritan.  I'm very proud of my gal, as there was never ever any question that she'd do what she did, but too many folks would have walked to either side and avoided the challenges that we will now face raising this little boy.

I do believe Cathy's actions were a greater sign of faith and love, then anything someone could say or any bible story one could tell.  She didn't do it because she was a 'Christian" or because of her religion.  She did it, because it's what good people do, without question.  You help if you can and you treat people as well as you can.

One of the offshoots of this is that we both have had to look at our faith again, as the timing of it all feels strange.  She bonds with Matthew on the anniversary of two of her kids dying.  She'll be home on what would have been Christina's 19th birthday and it forces our live in another direction that includes me changing diapers again after 19 years.  I can't wait to get started :)
Dan/CorkyJr
8th FS "Headhunters