No Reson to whine about NO Furballin anymore

[dedalos]

So if we chased you away how is that a problem?

Not sure what you are asking.  There is no problem.  You have succeeded in your quest for an empty arena.  Even when not empty, it is empty of fights

[dedalos]

There should be no reason for some of the old timers to come in a clean clocks.
<S>

And we did.  At list I tried.  Got tired of having 4 or 5 guys diving in from 10K for a pick and then heading home.  The setting in the arena promote not fighting.  You cant see where the bad guys are and the 3K icon range only serves the pickers or people hiding from you

[TheBug]

Sorry to hear that Dedalos.  I really don't see how a 3k icon range could have a great impact upon a group of individuals looking for a fight, but I guess for you it does.

Hope you find what you're looking for.  <S>

[Chilli]

Sorry TheBug,

This is one that Dedalos and I agree on.  Icon range does not promote engagement of fighters, unless they are both seeking the fight.  I am old, my eyes are bad, my screen is moderately sized and I constantly chase dust specks on my screen in hopes of finding a foe to spit lead at.

Honestly, I don't see what reducing the icon range adds to any of the setups.  I would like to hear some comparisons from some actual pilots without large screen monitors to the "realistic" expectation of identifying enemy threats (not just dust specks).

[Damionte]

We've talked about this before and i agree, the short icon range doesn't add much if anything to the experience. It simply makes it easier to hide from a fight. Great for those of us in transports trying to hide long enough to take a base, but sucks when yu're looking for a dogfight.

[Anaxogoras]

Low icon ranges make it easier to bounce bandits.  The 2k gap means the target will only see its attacker when it's too late far more frequently.  Therefore, low icon ranges requires more SA and more caution: commit to a slow turn-fight at your peril when there are unidentified dots nearby.  Most importantly, low icon ranges make faster, hit-and-run aircraft more effective against slower, better turning adversaries.  All in all, it creates conditions that more closely resemble WWII aerial combat.  Whether or not that's what we want is another story.

[Chilli]

Good point.  The other night I had about 3k altitude advantage (flying for Axis) and dove in on what I perceived as my target (judging from the friendly dar dots compared to number of actual specks) closed to within 800 ft and cut throttle hoping to move in closer without alerting him.  It worked I pulled right up 200 behind and vaporized the unaware pilot.  Later, on Channel 200 the pilot expressed what I had expected that he never saw me at all. 

It was a fairly easy kill, but no where as enjoyable as the 2 minute sweat producing dogfights that I am quite fond of.

[Shifty]

Sorry TheBug,

This is one that Dedalos and I agree on.  Icon range does not promote engagement of fighters, unless they are both seeking the fight. 

The AVA has always had limited icon ranges even back when it was the CT. The old time furballers insisted on limited icons. To complain that limited icons is one of the reasons there are no fights is just grasping at straws for something to complain about. 

There is no icon range that is going to promote engagement of fighters if one of the guys is seeking to avoid a fight.

[a4944]

I have not had problems finding air-to-air fights even when there is a war going on.  Ran into Shane a bunch of times last week for some good fights.  SgtTalon and his boys put up good fights in their P47s.  Batfink, Cbiz, and I got in some good 3 vs 3 c205 fights against well flown 38s.  I got in many great fights early war with Hurris, P40s, 109Es, c202s.  Often times tihs was away from the main war effort so there were furballing and some fighting the war trying to capture bases.

I'm not sure what causes it but fatigue always seems to set in.  This is the third week and only a few were on last night.   BoA and BoB had the same problem.   

Venom

[Damionte]

Yeah we do need at least a week long break between each scenario. The on thing I liked about the scenarios right before bugs war is th down time between them.

Being a CO I feel pressure to be on EVERY single night to make sure we're getting things done and it becomes a grind rather than something fun.

[dedalos]

Low icon ranges make it easier to bounce bandits.  The 2k gap means the target will only see its attacker when it's too late far more frequently.  Therefore, low icon ranges requires more SA and more caution: commit to a slow turn-fight at your peril when there are unidentified dots nearby.  Most importantly, low icon ranges make faster, hit-and-run aircraft more effective against slower, better turning adversaries.  All in all, it creates conditions that more closely resemble WWII aerial combat.  Whether or not that's what we want is another story.

Dude, really, you guys need to stop the BS about SA.  What SA can I have when I am already working against 2 or 3 other guys?  It only helps the cherry pickers.  Combine it with inaccurate dar and they are in heaven.

[Chilli]

The AVA has always had limited icon ranges even back when it was the CT. The old time furballers insisted on limited icons. To complain that limited icons is one of the reasons there are no fights is just grasping at straws for something to complain about. 

There is no icon range that is going to promote engagement of fighters if one of the guys is seeking to avoid a fight.

To say that something is right because it has always been that way, is not a good enough argument for me.  I simply am asking what icon range, either represents the best representation of identification of enemy contacts, or best enables pilots to find their targets without being too gamey from the real world prospect.  Assuming that there is a reason the HiTech placed icons in the game in the first place and even upgraded the reporting at closer range in AH2.

Heck, I have enjoyed Special Events when all icons and killshooter have been disabled.  In that scenario, we knew what planes were in the air and could make an identification by shape.

[Shifty]

To say that something is right because it has always been that way, is not a good enough argument for me.  

I'm not arguing with you, I don't care if you agree with me or not. During Battle of the Aces your were all hot to trot over a milk running war. You even refered to it once as your beloved Battle of Aces. Now you're coming across as some kind of furballer elitist. I was merely pointing out that the very guys that are missing from the picture at the moment, the furballers were the ones that always insisted on limited icons.  If a guy wants to fight he'll find a fight. If a guy doesn't want to fight he'll avoid a fight icon ranges have nothing to do with it.

[captain1ma]

ive been in the ava and its been a pretty good time. i'm not into bombers for hours at a time, but i like using them for 30 minute flights or less. i like aerial battles and i like fighting for a base, be it in a GV or in a plane. wars are about aquiring real estate and bringing the enemy to its knees.
   as for finding the bad guys, 3k icon range is fine, i can get killed just as easily by the guy i can see at 5k as the guy i can see at 3k. Death becomes me.
   the biggest problem i see with the set up is that all the guys i like, are on the wrong side. oh well must be some sort of computer glitch, either that or they have terrible taste in airplanes.
   the furballing is nice but it leads to nothing. id rather have a concerted effort to attack a base and kill it and take over. if a furball ensues in the process so much the better, but i dont go looking for a furball!
   anyway the setups are fun and the guys are, for the most part, good natured about killing me.
<S> to all that play.

[Hamltnblue]

The planesets would be a good thing to look at as well.  It seems like just about every AvA has some variant of 109 or 190 for Axis and random planes for Allied.  For squads that fly the 109/190's they get the same basic plane including controls. Others like the 353rd rarely see their plane of choice.  I'd suggest opening up the planeset on both sides to the top 5 rides of each side's choice.  You can try to be historic or whatever but if the squad's favorite rides aren't available in arena's other than FSO, they won't show.