Author Topic: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...  (Read 496 times)

Offline Hangtime

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Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« on: September 29, 2008, 02:17:27 AM »
..huge surprise.

I sure as hell hope the house republicans revolt. Ron Paul for SecTreas!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoX0LHJtH0c
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2008, 03:04:56 AM »
Well he is right even though he didnt vocalize it well. Our monetary base (narrow money) has been expansionary for nearly forty years without constraint and we should have seen a contractionary period of about a decade right around Bush Sr or certainly no later then Clinton. I think Bush Sr was asleep at the wheel and Clinton didnt want any hits on his term to slight Hillary. Now we have Bush who is absolutely uninformed on economy and wants to do WHAT?!? Like the article Dads cited indicated Clinton wanted everyone to 'feel good' about his Presidency and pushed for easy mortgages. This bailout is a bandaid on a major boil that needs to be lanced but once the precedents is set you can expect our power-hungry Congress to use it again and again...
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Offline rpm

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2008, 03:10:50 AM »
I don't usually repost email I get. This is a huge execption for me...

Dear Friends:

The financial meltdown the economists of the Austrian School predicted has arrived.

We are in this crisis because of an excess of artificially created credit at the hands of the Federal Reserve System. The solution being proposed? More artificial credit by the Federal Reserve. No liquidation of bad debt and malinvestment is to be allowed. By doing more of the same, we will only continue and intensify the distortions in our economy - all the capital misallocation, all the malinvestment - and prevent the market's attempt to re-establish rational pricing of houses and other assets.

Last night the president addressed the nation about the financial crisis. There is no point in going through his remarks line by line, since I'd only be repeating what I've been saying over and over - not just for the past several days, but for years and even decades.

Still, at least a few observations are necessary.

The president assures us that his administration "is working with Congress to address the root cause behind much of the instability in our markets." Care to take a guess at whether the Federal Reserve and its money creation spree were even mentioned?

We are told that "low interest rates" led to excessive borrowing, but we are not told how these low interest rates came about. They were a deliberate policy of the Federal Reserve. As always, artificially low interest rates distort the market. Entrepreneurs engage in malinvestments - investments that do not make sense in light of current resource availability, that occur in more temporally remote stages of the capital structure than the pattern of consumer demand can support, and that would not have been made at all if the interest rate had been permitted to tell the truth instead of being toyed with by the Fed.

Not a word about any of that, of course, because Americans might then discover how the great wise men in Washington caused this great debacle. Better to keep scapegoating the mortgage industry or "wildcat capitalism" (as if we actually have a pure free market!).

Speaking about Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the president said: "Because these companies were chartered by Congress, many believed they were guaranteed by the federal government. This allowed them to borrow enormous sums of money, fuel the market for questionable investments, and put our financial system at risk."

Doesn't that prove the foolishness of chartering Fannie and Freddie in the first place? Doesn't that suggest that maybe, just maybe, government may have contributed to this mess? And of course, by bailing out Fannie and Freddie, hasn't the federal government shown that the "many" who "believed they were guaranteed by the federal government" were in fact correct?

Then come the scare tactics. If we don't give dictatorial powers to the Treasury Secretary "the stock market would drop even more, which would reduce the value of your retirement account. The value of your home could plummet." Left unsaid, naturally, is that with the bailout and all the money and credit that must be produced out of thin air to fund it, the value of your retirement account will drop anyway, because the value of the dollar will suffer a precipitous decline. As for home prices, they are obviously much too high, and supply and demand cannot equilibrate if government insists on propping them up.

It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

The president also tells us that Senators McCain and Obama will join him at the White House today in order to figure out how to get the bipartisan bailout passed. The two senators would do their country much more good if they stayed on the campaign trail debating who the bigger celebrity is, or whatever it is that occupies their attention these days.

F.A. Hayek won the Nobel Prize for showing how central banks' manipulation of interest rates creates the boom-bust cycle with which we are sadly familiar. In 1932, in the depths of the Great Depression, he described the foolish policies being pursued in his day - and which are being proposed, just as destructively, in our own:

Instead of furthering the inevitable liquidation of the maladjustments brought about by the boom during the last three years, all conceivable means have been used to prevent that readjustment from taking place; and one of these means, which has been repeatedly tried though without success, from the earliest to the most recent stages of depression, has been this deliberate policy of credit expansion.

To combat the depression by a forced credit expansion is to attempt to cure the evil by the very means which brought it about; because we are suffering from a misdirection of production, we want to create further misdirection - a procedure that can only lead to a much more severe crisis as soon as the credit expansion comes to an end... It is probably to this experiment, together with the attempts to prevent liquidation once the crisis had come, that we owe the exceptional severity and duration of the depression.

The only thing we learn from history, I am afraid, is that we do not learn from history.

The very people who have spent the past several years assuring us that the economy is fundamentally sound, and who themselves foolishly cheered the extension of all these novel kinds of mortgages, are the ones who now claim to be the experts who will restore prosperity! Just how spectacularly wrong, how utterly without a clue, does someone have to be before his expert status is called into question?

Oh, and did you notice that the bailout is now being called a "rescue plan"? I guess "bailout" wasn't sitting too well with the American people.

The very people who with somber faces tell us of their deep concern for the spread of democracy around the world are the ones most insistent on forcing a bill through Congress that the American people overwhelmingly oppose. The very fact that some of you seem to think you're supposed to have a voice in all this actually seems to annoy them.

I continue to urge you to contact your representatives and give them a piece of your mind. I myself am doing everything I can to promote the correct point of view on the crisis. Be sure also to educate yourselves on these subjects - the Campaign for Liberty blog is an excellent place to start. Read the posts, ask questions in the comment section, and learn.

H.G. Wells once said that civilization was in a race between education and catastrophe. Let us learn the truth and spread it as far and wide as our circumstances allow. For the truth is the greatest weapon we have.

In liberty,
Ron Paul
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Chalenge

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2008, 03:25:57 AM »
I dont know if he is wrong exactly but the big difference between 'then' and 'now' is Congress is now trying to do something even if I disagree with what they are trying to do... doing nothing is obviously worse.
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2008, 03:35:52 AM »
You know...It suprises me, that as knowledgable as he is, Bush jr.'s administration didn't ask Ron Paul to help them out with the Economic side of things. He could have immensely helped the GOP cause out, and possibly gaurenteed them keeping the White House in November.

Offline rpm

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2008, 04:22:28 AM »
It's because he's known as "Dr. No" on the hill. He votes against most spending bills regardless of party and makes few friends. Except for voters.
My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.
Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Getback

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2008, 06:22:27 AM »
It's because he's known as "Dr. No" on the hill. He votes against most spending bills regardless of party and makes few friends. Except for voters.

That's my kind of guy! The guy makes so much sense. However he's like a cry in the wilderness.

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Offline Eagler

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2008, 07:43:49 AM »
I dont know if he is wrong exactly but the big difference between 'then' and 'now' is Congress is now trying to do something even if I disagree with what they are trying to do... doing nothing is obviously worse.

Is it?
Long term I think the bail out will be worse than if they just let the market implode now and straighten itself out
Instead of the bailout, Congress should be investigating how we got here, but they won't as that puts the magnifying glass right back on themselves...
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Offline FrodeMk3

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2008, 09:49:50 AM »
Is it?
Long term I think the bail out will be worse than if they just let the market implode now and straighten itself out
Instead of the bailout, Congress should be investigating how we got here, but they won't as that puts the magnifying glass right back on themselves...

Wow. I agree with Eagler...With the amounts' of money on the line that they propose, We can't really afford a mistake. Because mispending as much as what they are talking about (700 billion-a trillion) will leave us paying the consequences for a very, very long time.

Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 10:10:47 AM »
When he said that we transitioned to fiat money in 1971, what kind of monetary legislation passed in that year?

I'm not convinced that going back to a gold/silver standard is the answer, but I do agree with him that this kind of fiat money that requires new debt to expand the money supply is bad.

One of his claims is that fiat money in general never lasts, but to my knowledge the English tally stick was the longest running currency in the history of civilization.

Anyway, I'd still love to see Ron Paul in the White House and congress take back its constitutional authority to control the money supply.
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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 10:49:58 AM »
Is it?
Long term I think the bail out will be worse than if they just let the market implode now and straighten itself out
Instead of the bailout, Congress should be investigating how we got here, but they won't as that puts the magnifying glass right back on themselves...

Of course it is. This 'bailout' just turned into a vote purchasing scheme. I said it before and I will say it again these politicians could not make it outside of living off the taxpayers. I did say I disagree with what they are doing didnt I?
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Offline Torque

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 12:52:21 PM »
like i've been saying all along the free money days are over for the empire.

funny tho... all during the debates faux news did their best to marginalize and besmirch ron paul on these issues.

ah toad... did ron paul really say "empire"... :rofl

Offline Hangtime

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 01:17:42 PM »
Try not to gloat too much there Torque.... and yes, Paul called it an Empire, and he was right.
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...at home, or abroad.

Offline JAGED

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 01:21:17 PM »
...to my knowledge the English tally stick was the longest running currency in the history of civilization.

Nope, I believe that honor goes to the Drachma!
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Offline Mr No Name

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Re: Ron Paul is not a happy camper...
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2008, 01:32:31 PM »
You know...It suprises me, that as knowledgable as he is, Bush jr.'s administration didn't ask Ron Paul to help them out with the Economic side of things. He could have immensely helped the GOP cause out, and possibly gaurenteed them keeping the White House in November.

Because both of the Presidents named Bush are, at heart liberals.  They truly believe government meddling in the private sector is a good thing.  This mess started in 1999 as a program to help minorities and other low income people who did not qualify otherwise to get a mortgage... As a result of easy credit, home prices soared artificially and with more dollars being printed the value of our currency has tanked.

There are many things that would do a better job of kickstarting the economy such as slashing the capital gains and corporate taxes, starting a massive energy campaign, (drilling oil, mining coal, recovering natural gas, nuclear power, building refineries)  none of these proven things are being done.  In spite of what they say in LA, DC or NY, what we need in the US (flyover country) is cheap energy, industry and less government to make America financially strong again.
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