HiTech no likes ponys?

[Chalenge]

I talked with three different sources on the P51s available power. The first question was regarding the legend of a 'soft wire gate' at the maximum throttle position which turns out to be urban legend. The second question concerns maximum available power which has two answers the first of which is full military power of 61" Hg and war emergency power which is 67" Hg (limited to 5 minutes). WEP doesnt run out on a P51 unless you leave it at 67" in excess of five minutes and then the engine is toast! So what we have is a pretty good representation of the P51 since we dont want to see engines cooked.

The only remaining question I have concerns the way flaps kill the P51 in slow speed cornering. I have seen F4Us drop flaps and do snap rolls (contrary to the F4Us operations manual) and then exit the snap roll and very nearly immediately go into a nose high climb! While that doesnt seem right to me I cant argue with rooks for making it the hands down favorite plane to fly right now. Thats a plane I would like to have some answers on!

[toonces3]

Well said.

An hour in a Pony does not make one an expert in its 'performance'.

Having said that, I have 0 hours in the Pony, so...so much for my .02 about how the Pony is modeled.

[Guppy35]

All I know is that on those times I've taken up a B or D Mustang, it seems to do the things that my imagination says it should after reading all those P51 pilot stories.

Seems like it's working just fine if it can do that for me

[Delirium]

I have no argument with the P51 model as it is, quite a few are aggressive with it (like OlDemon and WldThing).

I feel the real problem is the 90% of guys that aren't aggressive with it, they fly it like it is missing an elevator.

I have seen F4Us drop flaps and do snap rolls (contrary to the F4Us operations manual) and then exit the snap roll and very nearly immediately go into a nose high climb!

Many knowledgeable individuals (Widewing, Bodhi, et al) have said the Corsair is overmodeled, my $0.02 is to agree with them.

[Anaxogoras]

I don't think it's that the corsair is overmodeled, but something is definitely funny with its super-high AoA stability.

[Guppy35]

I don't think it's that the corsair is overmodeled, but something is definitely funny with its super-high AoA stability.

I've flown the 1A a few times lately when the bases are too far apart for my 38G.  I was amazed at how stable it was a slow speeds with everything hanging out.  The 38G, which is great low and slow, is much quicker to depart then the Hog, despite no torque.  It was a fun bird to fly...not that anything outside of a Spit XII could replace my 38G

[Grayeagle]

I spent an hour putting a TF-51D, converted from a 1944 vintage P-51D, call sign 'Crazy Horse' thru an aerobatic session,
..including accelerated stalls, power on straight ahead stalls, right turn hard pull till she stalled,
..and the dreaded left turn hard pull until she snapped, 10 degree flap down max turn rate turns,
..it's on video if you want to watch it.

Lee Lauderback had the camera pointing back at me and one up on the fin looking forward
for the whole sequence from engine start to engine shut off.
I did everything I useda do in the Arena except gun some helpless dweeb outta the sky
ie: we did simulated ground attack runs, the 'pop up' for target aquisition completely matched what you get out of the Stang in the arena, ..
..zoom from 400mph to 3500', roll onto target, guns-guns-guns..pull off at 100' AGL ..oh yaaa.
The biggest differences?
Awesome frame rate.
You have to put 50lbs of pressure on the stick for each 'G' you pull.
(ya .. to pull 4G's it takes about 150lbs of pressure on the stick
..that's both hands, feet braced on the rudder pedals, and PULL ..HARD ..HARDER ..PULLHARD!!
.. unless you trim thru it, which I did on the Split S from 8500' AGL)
The sound.. just cant get that gut feelin of the Merlin up front, the shake of the whole fuselage when she fires up, etc.
..and last but not least, the feelin on touchdown after an hour of dancing in the clouds ..
..ya bay-bee .. worth every penny.

Instead of the radio in back, it had me.
Instead of the 50 cals in the wings, he has fuel tanks there.
We were runnin about 50 percent fuel quantity, and of course, nothing in the rear fuse tank
(I don't think that one is still installed .. just too dangerous with it).

He said the weights about matched a combat ready P-51D without the drop tanks.
They use Crazy Horse to train Naval Aviators, it's rigged so it flies very much like the 1944 P-51D it came from.
No hot rod Reno engine, 'stock' motor.
Control deflections all match the original Tech Orders, .. the works.

I know Dale flew it also, and Mad Max ..the other TF-51D that Lee operates.

It was and is just a little bit more than 'just spendin time flyin around'
.. Lee let us find out where the Lady sings.

-GE aka Frank
 www.stallion51.com

[Chalenge]

I have no argument with the P51 model as it is, quite a few are aggressive with it (like OlDemon and WldThing).

I feel the real problem is the 90% of guys that aren't aggressive with it, they fly it like it is missing an elevator.

Many knowledgeable individuals (Widewing, Bodhi, et al) have said the Corsair is overmodeled, my $0.02 is to agree with them.

Fortunately most of the pilots trying to take advantage of an advantage still fail.  

[pervert]

There seems to be a campaign to make poor old hitech relent and give the p51d discovery channel style powers heres an interview with a guy whos flew spit9s p51s and 109s http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94. I cant comment on real life flight performance of a p51 but neither can 99% of people in this thread hitech being the exception. But skip makes a valid point about people who play/buy the game want to keep the allies winning, so its to aces highs credit that the axis planes are more than competitive, even if that means the allies dont always win.
I can remember playing IL2 online and the russian planes are far superior to everything else especially the la7. Like Vladimir Putin had been poking old Oleg with a sharp stick as he wrote the game from the in game write ups to cannon and flight performance of russian aircraft 
ps uptown have read a couple of write ups from you about what should I do p51 v how do I beat 109 etc and now this questioning the p51 flight modelling if you have enough airspeed to manoveur it doesnt matter whats on your 6 or what inherit advantages their aircraft has over yours it'll come down to whos the better pilot or a mistake. 

[uptown]

I really don't have any complaints about the pony. But I was wondering why several that post in this board from time to time say the modeling is porked. I hear the flaps, turn and climb rate are under-modeled. I remember when the 51 have a eny of 5..now it's at 8. And wanted to ask if it was undermodeled. Personally, I wouldn't care if it is. I'd still fly it anyway.
It's my main ride because it don't turn as well as a spit, niki, hurri,or 109. It's not as fast as a la,tippy or K4 and it has .50 cals instead of cannons.
I like to put it in harms way. For me to just BnZ in it from 15k is just boring. Most of the fights in the MA are on the deck so thats where I take it. It's a fact that I'm not the best at what I do, but I'd like to have all the information i can get on my plane of choice to see what I can do different to be more successful in it.
Sure, I could stay at 20k and cherry pick and run for 2 sectors when I get into trouble, but imo that don't make you a good stick.I fly most of the time without a wingman and I'm stuck in a rut and can't seem to get over the adverage pilot hump.

[pervert]

I always thought the pony was your main ride because you where in a pony squadron. Cos you used to fly a 38 Why dont you get Iucky to teach ya a few pony tricks?

[BnZ]

There seems to be a campaign to make poor old hitech relent and give the p51d discovery channel style powers heres an interview with a guy whos flew spit9s p51s and 109s http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94. I cant comment on real life flight performance of a p51 but neither can 99% of people in this thread hitech being the exception. But skip makes a valid point about people who play/buy the game want to keep the allies winning, so its to aces highs credit that the axis planes are more than competitive, even if that means the allies dont always win.

Horse Crap!

I fly a 190 alot more than I fly a P-51...so much for some deep, dark bias against Luftwaffe birds. No one on this thread wants some sort of unrealistic Super-Mustang that out-turns Zeroes either, that is a paper-tiger.

It is not about having a P-51 that out-turns a SpitV. The fact remains that the AHII Pony can NOT out-turn such bricks as the P-47 and Typhoon, in direct contradiction of what pilots who tested them and flew during war have to say about the matter. German pilots even recognized the P-51 as being more agile than the P-47, but it is absolutely the opposite in AH.

[RTHolmes]

I suspect thats because WWII pilots were mostly talking about agility at realistic alts/speeds, not scissors floating 50' off the ground at 80mph with full flaps like we do in AH?

[BnZ]

I suspect thats because WWII pilots were mostly talking about agility at realistic alts/speeds, not scissors floating 50' off the ground at 80mph with full flaps like we do in AH?

Another paper-tiger. Fast or slow, the Jug will keep up with a turning Pony at high-speed, and gain ground as things slow.

I find it real "cute" when people say the P-51 turns well above 280 mph or so btw. Almost everything in the game, including the Fw-190s, turn well at such high-speeds, if by "turn well" you mean it can pull enough Gs to run into the black-out that is the real limit during high-speed turning anyway.

[Anaxogoras]

There seems to be a campaign to make poor old hitech relent and give the p51d discovery channel style powers heres an interview with a guy whos flew spit9s p51s and 109s http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TFl8X4y9-94. I cant comment on real life flight performance of a p51 but neither can 99% of people in this thread hitech being the exception. But skip makes a valid point about people who play/buy the game want to keep the allies winning, so its to aces highs credit that the axis planes are more than competitive, even if that means the allies dont always win.

I think skip is wrong that CRS overdid the Spitfire because people want the allies to win.  There are many other explanations for getting something wrong besides outright bias.

That said, I find his comments about a 109G out turning a Spitfire IX curious because wingloading figures would suggest otherwise, not to mention the lower induced drag that a Spitfire incurs at low speed.  If they've flown the P-51D alongside the 109G and found that the latter climbs better and is more nimble, fine, but I'd like to see the same side-by-side comparison with the Spitfire IX before I believe it.

It's also good to remember that AH errors in performance also reflect the limitations of computer modeling.  The P-38L turned with a Spitfire V back in HT/Pyro's warbirds, and it outrolled the 190.  The flight data didn't change, but the modeling changed over time and gave us the P-38L we have today.  Oh yeah, if you're wondering, 50% of the planes you'd see in a furball then were P-38L's, and everyone swore the performance was realistic and that they just flew it because they loved the P-38.