Author Topic: tell me your veiws on this  (Read 3453 times)

Offline bigrich

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 07:12:05 PM »
ok now for another scenario...

4 P-47d-25s are on route to bomb and rocket a Japanese instaltion they where told there was a airfield nearby but they took out the radar 2 days before when 8 A6M2 zeroes come from the direction of the field they drop their ordinance and fire there rockets and proceeded in attacking the zekes but they didn't carry a drop tank for the dog fighting so they realize they need to make short work of the zekes and radio in for another flight of 47's with escorts......the zekes closed in fast and took out a 47 and the pilot bailed so 3 47d-25s with not enough fuel to dog fight for long vs 8 zekes.....   
fear the FW-190 D9
And the Butcher Bird(190 A-8)

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 07:13:00 PM »
ok now for another scenario...

4 P-47d-25s are on route to bomb and rocket a Japanese instaltion they where told there was a airfield nearby but they took out the radar 2 days before when 8 A6M2 zeroes come from the direction of the field they drop their ordinance and fire there rockets and proceeded in attacking the zekes but they didn't carry a drop tank for the dog fighting so they realize they need to make short work of the zekes and radio in for another flight of 47's with escorts......the zekes closed in fast and took out a 47 and the pilot bailed so 3 47d-25s with not enough fuel to dog fight for long vs 8 zekes.....   

Add the Ki-84.
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline bigrich

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 07:13:43 PM »
no ki-84's they where being repaired 
fear the FW-190 D9
And the Butcher Bird(190 A-8)

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 07:15:16 PM »
no ki-84's they where being repaired 
Ki-100?
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 07:20:25 PM »
the zekes closed in fast and took out a 47 and the pilot bailed so 3 47d-25s with not enough fuel to dog fight for long vs 8 zekes.....   


They would do what any other USAAF pilot would do in that situation, enter into a shallow climb and accelerate away and return home.  No way in Hell a Zeke is going to catch a P-47 unless the Zeke is diving on the Jug from altitude.


ack-ack
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Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 07:22:36 PM »
They would do what any other USAAF pilot would do in that situation, enter into a shallow climb and accelerate away and return home.  No way in Hell a Zeke is going to catch a P-47 unless the Zeke is diving on the Jug from altitude.


ack-ack
True.
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 07:28:35 PM »
True.

How would you know?  I seriously doubt you've ever read a book on dogfighting or anything remotely close to it.  You just parrot what others post because you can't formulate your own posts if it requires more than a two word sentence.

Honestly, you are the epitome of a squeaker and the really sad thing is that you wear it as a badge of honor.

My kingdom for a forum ignore list!


ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2008, 07:35:02 PM »
How would you know?  I seriously doubt you've ever read a book on dogfighting or anything remotely close to it.  You just parrot what others post because you can't formulate your own posts if it requires more than a two word sentence.

Honestly, you are the epitome of a squeaker and the really sad thing is that you wear it as a badge of honor.

My kingdom for a forum ignore list!


ack-ack
I have a book about dog fighting and the 47s would just kill the zeros. So do you want me to get this thread lock because your a bellybutton to just about every one here?
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2008, 07:39:54 PM »
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2008, 07:41:28 PM »
So any one going to finish the story who isn't a ass?
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Ghosth

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2008, 08:01:12 AM »
(Snippage)I have a book about dog fighting and the 47s would just kill the zeros. So do you want me to get this thread lock because your a bellybutton to just about every one here? (End snippage)

Skuzzy I'll take Glock clues for 200$ please.

"And the 47's would just kill the zero's"

 How?  If you can't say HOW something was done, you can't say it was done. If you can't give proof, it doesn't exist.

P47's can exit the fight at will as long as they have altitude.
But they can't just kill the zero's. The A6m's have a HUGE turn advantage, and their cannons are capable of doing major damage with just a snap shot. So the Jug's can't just "kill them" in order to win they have to use superior tactics. Tactics that maximize their planes strong points, and minimizing their weak points.

You can't just say  that one would just "kill" the other without saying HOW.
And then backing that up with cold hard fact.

For example, its a fact that the F4u series of planes maintained a 9 - 1 kill ratio against Japanese planes.
If you know that fact, and IF it apply's to the discussion at hand, then you can USE it to help make your case. But you can't just make blanket statements.

If that is all you can do stop talking!

Skuzzy, Glock clues for 400$ please.

The problem glock as I see it is that your a young person who WANTS all this. However you are  thrown into a grown up world, where people communicate using grown up rules. Your still trying to communicate using preteen examples and rules. Hence the problem.

You have 3 choices basically

A sit down and shut up until you can mature enough to hold a reasonable debate or discussion.

B Go to work and read, learn all you can, then read and learn some more.
Listen to everything thats said, how its said and why its said, say little for now.
And someday you will be able to compete. Whats more you'll be able to do it with style.
(Hint, read ALL of widewing's posts till you understand them)

C Continue on the path your on, where you have 0 respect from anyone, no one reads your posts except to slam you. Until eventually consumed by greed and self loathing you commit suicide. Unfortunately this option won't happen soon enough for most readers.

Skuzzy, glock clues for 600$ please.

Glock like it or not this is an adult world you have stumbled into, with adult rules.
Calling people trying to show you the error of your ways prettythangholes is not helping your case any.
Keep it civil, don't return insult for insult. Don't give anyone any reason to take you out of the picture.
See where I'm headed?

Skuzzy Glock clues for 800$ please.

Granted AckAck can be a bit salamanderly. Many of us ol farts can. Know why? Cause we see a dozen of your kind a year come through here. They just jump in with both feet, don't think first. Attack at the first sign of an insult. Get all huffy, get chewed up, and slink off licking their wounds. In short act like the boys they are.
If you want to make it here your going to have to
A grow up fast
B don't pick fights
C don't respond in kind
D Listen much, and say little.
E Respect your Elders, because some of us have been here doing this here since 99. And some of us go back another 6 - 10 years before that with Air Warrior or Warbirds. In short, they are OLD, Wise in the ways of the force and they should be Respected and LISTENED to.  Like, uhuh wait for it.

Skuzzy Glock Clues for 1000$ Please.

AckAck.

Glock if someone tells you something, listen to them. Chances are they are right and your wrong.







Offline Obie303

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2008, 08:22:51 AM »
Getting back to the subject (not that I don't mind a good roasting. :D).

The event you described sounds like it was from Operation Bodenplatte.  It was launched on January 1, 1945.  The battle you are describing took place over Metz-Frescaty in France.  JG-53 attacked elements of the 9th Air Force and 365th Fighter Group. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unternehmen_Bodenplatte
I have fought a good fight,
I have finished my course,
I have kept the faith.
(quote on a Polish pilot's grave marker in Nottinghamshire, England)

71 (Eagle) Squadron

Offline Karnak

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2008, 09:33:52 AM »
ok now for another scenario...

4 P-47d-25s are on route to bomb and rocket a Japanese instaltion they where told there was a airfield nearby but they took out the radar 2 days before when 8 A6M2 zeroes come from the direction of the field they drop their ordinance and fire there rockets and proceeded in attacking the zekes but they didn't carry a drop tank for the dog fighting so they realize they need to make short work of the zekes and radio in for another flight of 47's with escorts......the zekes closed in fast and took out a 47 and the pilot bailed so 3 47d-25s with not enough fuel to dog fight for long vs 8 zekes.....   

As I understand it, A6M2s would have been withdrawn from anything other than kamikaze service by the time the P-47D-25 was in combat with the Japanese, and the kamikaze duty came later.

A6M5s don't change the scenario that much, but they are a bit faster and have significantly upgraded cannons.

Still, the P-47s can withdraw almost at will using a shallow climb.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline glock89

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2008, 01:53:22 PM »
(Snippage)I have a book about dog fighting and the 47s would just kill the zeros. So do you want me to get this thread lock because your a bellybutton to just about every one here? (End snippage)

Skuzzy I'll take Glock clues for 200$ please.

"And the 47's would just kill the zero's"

 How?  If you can't say HOW something was done, you can't say it was done. If you can't give proof, it doesn't exist.

P47's can exit the fight at will as long as they have altitude.
But they can't just kill the zero's. The A6m's have a HUGE turn advantage, and their cannons are capable of doing major damage with just a snap shot. So the Jug's can't just "kill them" in order to win they have to use superior tactics. Tactics that maximize their planes strong points, and minimizing their weak points.

You can't just say  that one would just "kill" the other without saying HOW.
And then backing that up with cold hard fact.

For example, its a fact that the F4u series of planes maintained a 9 - 1 kill ratio against Japanese planes.
If you know that fact, and IF it apply's to the discussion at hand, then you can USE it to help make your case. But you can't just make blanket statements.

If that is all you can do stop talking!

Skuzzy, Glock clues for 400$ please.

The problem glock as I see it is that your a young person who WANTS all this. However you are  thrown into a grown up world, where people communicate using grown up rules. Your still trying to communicate using preteen examples and rules. Hence the problem.

You have 3 choices basically

A sit down and shut up until you can mature enough to hold a reasonable debate or discussion.

B Go to work and read, learn all you can, then read and learn some more.
Listen to everything thats said, how its said and why its said, say little for now.
And someday you will be able to compete. Whats more you'll be able to do it with style.
(Hint, read ALL of widewing's posts till you understand them)

C Continue on the path your on, where you have 0 respect from anyone, no one reads your posts except to slam you. Until eventually consumed by greed and self loathing you commit suicide. Unfortunately this option won't happen soon enough for most readers.

Skuzzy, glock clues for 600$ please.

Glock like it or not this is an adult world you have stumbled into, with adult rules.
Calling people trying to show you the error of your ways uncleholes is not helping your case any.
Keep it civil, don't return insult for insult. Don't give anyone any reason to take you out of the picture.
See where I'm headed?

Skuzzy Glock clues for 800$ please.

Granted AckAck can be a bit hootly. Many of us ol farts can. Know why? Cause we see a dozen of your kind a year come through here. They just jump in with both feet, don't think first. Attack at the first sign of an insult. Get all huffy, get chewed up, and slink off licking their wounds. In short act like the boys they are.
If you want to make it here your going to have to
A grow up fast
B don't pick fights
C don't respond in kind
D Listen much, and say little.
E Respect your Elders, because some of us have been here doing this here since 99. And some of us go back another 6 - 10 years before that with Air Warrior or Warbirds. In short, they are OLD, Wise in the ways of the force and they should be Respected and LISTENED to.  Like, uhuh wait for it.

Skuzzy Glock Clues for 1000$ Please.

AckAck.

Glock if someone tells you something, listen to them. Chances are they are right and your wrong.







He said A6M5 the pilot don't know how to fly they got rush threw training and with very little flying time while you got P-47 who been flying for years and know all the what to do while the new pilots don't. I love how every guy here with the most stars are the biggest amazinhunks you will ever met.
Fear and death in the wings, in thrall of those fallen from grace
Petty is as petty does, witness the mass disgrace.

Offline Gianlupo

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Re: tell me your veiws on this
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2008, 02:26:22 PM »
He said A6M5

Bigrich said A6M2.

Quote
the pilot don't know how to fly they got rush threw training and with very little flying time while you got P-47 who been flying for years and know all the what to do while the new pilots don't.

He never stated anything about the level of training of the pilots involved, not about the Japanese, nor about the Americans. Plus, he said the 47s were short on fuel, one of them is shot down almost immediately and they have to fight 3 vs. 8. What can possibly make you think the Americans won't lose this engagement? In a situation like that, it's most likely that the 47 would use their superior speed to disengage.

I warmly invite you to follow Ghosth advices, it'll be a lot better if you do that.

I love it: stack all of the factors to one side's favor, and then deny that they would win. :P

My thought exactly! :D
Live to fly, fly to live!