Spitfire, La & N1k Factories!

[Zazen13]

I just posted a huge thing on this a few days ago. I've put a lot of thought into it. Instead of specific plane fac's have plane nationality Fac's. For example, British Aircraft fac, German/Italian, Russian, Prop Perk plane Fac, Jet Factories, etc. That way a whole subset of players will have a vested interest in their preservation of the Fac type for their favorite plane's nationality, not just one particular model.

[BnZ]

You're only think of the P-51D's air-to-air ability.  It's a darn good ground attack plane, too.

T-Y-P-H-O-O-N

[BnZ]

Well, yes, you are indeed right about the noble Supermarine Spitfire Karnak, some would fly Spit variants even if they weren't as competitive as 109s. I call spits half-and-half in that regard. I still remember the first time I caught "Spitfire!" and "Battle of Britain" on T.V. as a kid.

I have no problem with the P-51D.  I have a problem with people being selective and trying to only screw the other guy.

As to flying it for what it is, I think you'd be surprised how many people hold Spitfires in genuine affection.  I signed up to this game just to fly the Spitfire, which I did for a couple years before I got so sick of the whines I switched to the Mosquito.

Yes, the Spitfire is pretty easy to be successful in and it makes it easier to recover from errors without paying in full for them, so it does attract players that way.  Likewise, the P-51D enables certain tactics and that attracts some players.  The idea that only the P-51D is getting many players due to a particular liking for the aircraft and its history is absurd.

I will grant you that the honest La-7 or N1K2-J enthusists surely make a tiny fraction of the players that use them.

[Karnak]

T-Y-P-H-O-O-N

I actually tested which fighters were the fastest to climb to 10k, make it to the next base and deliver 2k of bombs.  #1: P-38L, #2: Mosquito Mk VI, #3: Bf110G-2, #4: Typhoon Mk Ib.  I don't recall where the P-51D, F6F-5 and F4Us came in and there wasn't a P-38J at the time I tested it.

Basically, two engines haul bombs faster, most particularly during the climb to 10k.

[Masherbrum]

You're only think of the P-51D's air-to-air ability.  It's a darn good ground attack plane, too.

You're thinking of the Thunderbolt.   Taking a Pony for GA is silly, more boom = more happiness = more "WTF happened to the hangars? QUAH!!!!" over range.   

[Zazen13]

I actually tested which fighters were the fastest to climb to 10k, make it to the next base and deliver 2k of bombs.  #1: P-38L, #2: Mosquito Mk VI, #3: Bf110G-2, #4: Typhoon Mk Ib.  I don't recall where the P-51D, F6F-5 and F4Us came in and there wasn't a P-38J at the time I tested it.

Basically, two engines haul bombs faster, most particularly during the climb to 10k.

The problem is, to effectively use a Typhoon in most MA conditions you HAVE to bring DT's to extend flight time. Re-avaluate the climb out to 10k with those puppies strapped on...

[Anaxogoras]

You're thinking of the Thunderbolt.   Taking a Pony for GA is silly, more boom = more happiness = more "WTF happened to the hangars? QUAH!!!!" over range.   

I agree, but I was just trying to make sense of its low ENY for BnZ.  2 x 1k bombs plus a bunch of rockets ain't too shabby.

[SmokinLoon]

I think the ENY factor is the easiest way to implement a plane availability factor, no need to alter the game with a bunch of long drawn out coding.  Here is how it works (and used to work, iirc):

For each fighter hanger destoryed the ENY of that specific base is raised by 10 points (or other such factor, but make it legit).  This would simulate an airfield having less to choose from for available defending aircraft and in many cases the "best" were often in the fewest numbers due to being used elsewhere.  If there are 4 fighter hangers and 3 of them are destroyed, then we're looking at a 30 ENY score (wich needs to be adjusted to allow THAT score and higher, and not THAT score and below if increments of 10 are used).  If this system were used it would allow the game to get away from the "all or none" system of play when it comes to OBJ and base strat targets.  If the major strat targets can have a sliding scale of damage... I would think that the same could be applied to the hangers (and base strats too).

On the same note... I think the base strat targets should be a sliding scale as well (destory 1 fuel bunker = no DT, 2 fuel bunkers = %75 fuel, etc).  This "all or none" is becoming too "same-same", and introducing a sliding damage scale for the base strats and hangers would limit the number of 1k bombs, DT, lancs-stuks, and "uber" fighters we see without messing with the ENY and OBJ scores HTC seems to be so hesitant to adjust.

[Karnak]

The problem is, to effectively use a Typhoon in most MA conditions you HAVE to bring DT's to extend flight time. Re-avaluate the climb out to 10k with those puppies strapped on...

You only need DTs if you plan on staying and fighting.  If your goal is simply to drop your eggs and head for home the Tiffie can do it just fine on internal, so long as it isn't a deep penetration raid.

[Zazen13]

You only need DTs if you plan on staying and fighting.  If your goal is simply to drop your eggs and head for home the Tiffie can do it just fine on internal, so long as it isn't a deep penetration raid.

People actually plan to just drop eggs and fly home?!? How, freaking boring is that! 

[715]

Say, this is a wonderful idea!  But of course, it shouldn't be Spit XVI or Spit IX factories (both with measly K/D of only 1.09) or La-7 factories (even worse at K/D=1.02).  It should be F4U-1C (2.24), F4U-4 (2.25), Bf109K-4 (1.34), Bf109G-14 (1.12), and Hurricane IIC (1.4) factories now shouldn't it?

Oh, wait... those are the planes you want to fly?  Then it isn't such a good idea is it? 

Oh, so you actually want to increase plane diversity?  Then it should be P51D factories shouldn't it, as those are the most used fighters. 

Oh, I see... you just want to cause grief for people who fly planes you don't like.  I see; that makes much more sense.

[Zazen13]

See my post above where I reiterate my suggestion that the fac's be nationality specific not make/model specific. This would eliminate "prejudicial" treatment of one particular plane model or another and increase the number of people who would have a vested interest in protecting a given nationality's fighter set.

[715]

That's even worse.  You want Brits to have no British cartoon planes to fly?  You want them to fly Bf109's?  I see the only outcome here is to cause grief and to up kills by bombers on fighters as they vainly try to protect the factories.  (In my experience of watching people trying to intercept bombers in AH the bombers have something like an 85% chance of destroying their target.  So a few dedicated buff drivers could permanently remove certain planes from AH by keeping the factories down forever.)

[Zazen13]

That's even worse.  You want Brits to have no British cartoon planes to fly?  You want them to fly Bf109's?  I see the only outcome here is to cause grief and to up kills by bombers on fighters as they vainly try to protect the factories.  (In my experience of watching people trying to intercept bombers in AH the bombers have something like an 85% chance of destroying their target.  So a few dedicated buff drivers could permanently remove certain planes from AH by keeping the factories down forever.)

Variables like hardness and tonnage required can be modified right there in the CM tool interface. There would have to be consideration as to their locations, they must have proximate fields from which to launch a proper reactionary defense.

[Karnak]

That's even worse.  You want Brits to have no British cartoon planes to fly?  You want them to fly Bf109's?  I see the only outcome here is to cause grief and to up kills by bombers on fighters as they vainly try to protect the factories.  (In my experience of watching people trying to intercept bombers in AH the bombers have something like an 85% chance of destroying their target.  So a few dedicated buff drivers could permanently remove certain planes from AH by keeping the factories down forever.)

I always found bombers easy prey and when I played I always had a massively positive K/D ratio against them.