Bomber Gunners

[covega]

This message rec'd from an Aces High alpha tester who is a member of the Dickweed Heavy Bomber Group:  (we agree with him)

CO vega sir,

trebor thinks it is about time to ask Hitech and Pyro to see about
getting some sort of Auto Gunners in the B17's. Without a full
complement of gunners a Buff Squadron will NEVER EVER be effective in
Aces High. You cannot Fly, Navigate, Line up the Norden, and be
defensive all at the same time. When shooting guns you will over fly or
miss the target and break formation (I need practice on that issue).

Pilots duties can be shared by flying the Airplane and operating the
Norden but that should be as far as it goes. If you want to jump to the
back to fire the guns that should be and option, but in my opinion it
should be left to Auto or the Extra Gunners to be effective as in the
other game WB.

Just my 4 cents worth, (inflation man, inflation)

trebor........

[popeye]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO.....


popeye

[214CaveJ]

 

Originally posted by covega:
You cannot Fly, Navigate, Line up the Norden, and be
defensive all at the same time. When shooting guns you will over fly or
miss the target and break formation (I need practice on that issue).

I beg to differ with this statement.  There has been many a time I've maintained my navigation while underfire.  Been many a time I've had several bandits coming in on me as I approach a target, dispatch 1, switch to another gun and dispatch a second, jump to norden kick out an egg or two, then back to the tail gun for the 3rd-4th bandits closing on me.

Also, in formations I've put together, we've spread out a little bit over our target but 90% of the time we're in a nice, tight box within 2 minutes of coming off target.

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Air power is a thunderbolt launched from an egg shell invisibly tethered to a base.         -  Hoffman Nickerson

[JimBear]

2nd that  NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

If I feel the need to deal with otto gunners, EAW is what I would be playing. Don't know about everyone else, but while air-air, its another person that I want to be challengeing myself against.

JimBear

[bloom25]

We don't need any of those super-acks mounted on a bomber.  It's not that hard to fly, navigate, bomb, and gun by yourself.  Having a gunner makes it even easier.  I don't see any problems with the current implementation.  (Besides, who wants to see the rise of the ackstar.)

bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS

[Pongo]

"Without a full
complement of gunners a Buff Squadron will NEVER EVER be effective in
Aces High."
In response to simular problems in WW2 a tactic called the "escort" mission was developed. This novel concept used long range fighters to deal with interceptors so that bombers can perform there strikes. The Wrecking Crew has had great success emulating this tactic. Some good planes for this are the P51, and the F4U with lots of belly tanks. Maybe we could have Auto Escorts?
 



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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew

[MiG Eater]

   

Originally posted by covega:

trebor thinks it is about time to ask Hitech and Pyro to see about
getting some sort of Auto Gunners in the B17's. Without a full
complement of gunners a Buff Squadron will NEVER EVER be effective in
Aces High.

Bombers seem quite effective in AH.  With a high altitude ingress, they are nearly immune to fighter interception.  We've all been on the receiving end of losing HQ and radar.  Many have seen the fast B-26 raids lay waste to our fields even at low altitudes.  The accuracy offered by the Norden sight in AH is unprecedented in WW2 and only achievable by the much later "smart" guided weapons.  The bombers also have three modes of autopilot that alleviate the need to even fly the airplane plus we can fly with a dedicated gunner.

Have to say no to Otto here.

MiG


[This message has been edited by MiG Eater (edited 02-07-2000).]

[trebor]

Obviously there seems to be a couple different points of view on this subject. I stand 100% behind my statement. The B17 for the most part is just a piloted drone.

If you can Fly, Navigate, Line up the Norden and Fire the guns, then you my friend are Superman. Our Squad is made up of some of the most experienced Buff Drivers one could ever find. And we have a hard time being effective in this game. I choose not to spend an hour or so setting up for a strike when someone comes along and I can only fire from 1 gun at a time and hardly be in a position to defend myself. Muchless overfly the intended target or get out of formation.

Want to make a game Historically correct? Then let the Flying Fortress be "The Flying Fortress".

If you want drones in the game that cannot defend themselves then just put them in.

trebor


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[Ripsnort]

LOL Trebor, don't think anyone was questioning your bomber skills. (Maybe  Cave was, but, alas, thats Cave!)

If you asked the community "Do you think AH should have otto gunners?"  I'll bet that 95% would say no, and out of that 95%, 50% of those polled would be bomber pilots.  Believe me, ackstarring in WB's burned out alot of folks, best thing that ever happened in online simming is having no otto.  If you ack star, you have to earn it.

I usually fly alone  in a buff, but if I feel I may be going into a hotly contested area, then I'll ask for  a gunner on the open channel.

Anyways, hope you reconsider, after you've been online awhile flying buffs, you'll wonder why you ever liked otto in the first place, IMO.

[Fury]

 

Originally posted by trebor:
....I choose not to spend an hour or so setting up for a strike when someone comes along and I can only fire from 1 gun at a time and hardly be in a position to defend myself....
trebor

There is an option somewhere to link guns.  This will cause any gun pointed at the fighter to shoot when you shoot from your lone position (so long as the other guns have a clear field of fire).  Simulates multiple gunners.  Works pretty cool I think.

Fury

[sourkraut]

If buffs had otto guns, why would any pilot want a gunner?

I believe that all guns in FOV fire on nme that you are aiming at. Other than the short period of time you are lining up and in the norden sight you should be flipping around from gun to gun to stay clear.

Which brings up another point - how about being able to go directly to guns from norden sight and vice versa? This would reduce some of this vulnerability during bombing passes.

Sour

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Sourkraut
JG-2 Richthofen

"Hey - someone has to be the target...."

[Pavel]

Caveman and Bloom are correct- it's not that hard, but of like most things in AH (& elsewhere)- experience matters.
Ripsnort provides excellent advice for those still acquiring said experience: get a gunner before entering combat zone.
Sour & Fury are correct- you can fire from multiple bomber positions simultaneously.
Pongo's sarcasm is accurate- strategy combined with fighter support can make most bomber duty survivable.
 
And the vast majority are absolutely on target- No OTTO in AH!

[Revvin]

Just pop over to brand 'W' community UBB's and look at all the arguments a computerised 'otto' gunner causes, it has been a problem for brand 'W' for years and has never been successfully tuned to suit either the bomber or fighters point of view. It's a can of worms just waiting to explode and I think HTC have smartly put this can away on the top shelf out of the way.

[Azrael]

Bombers are already regarded very effective against fighters, and I (as a buff driver) would hate to see them made more effective. If navigation, target alignment and bomb dropping is too much of a task you should consider taking a gunner with you.

No otto for me, pls.

Az

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Si tacuisses, philosophus manisses.

[snafu]

Why can only 1 person "Join" a bomber? Surely Buff's should be able to have as many people join as there are positions to fill Why can't they, am I missing something?

TTFN
snafu