Avoiding the Alt Monkey

[Kitt18]

Is there any illustration/tips anyone can give on avoiding the high alt dive attack. Usually I wait until the attacking con is in a steep dive, then dive and roll against and under the vertical axis of the other plane. Typically I avoid the initial attack, but I appear to place myself in a situation where I give up my six quickly as I come out of my flip.

[uptown]

I used to dive down and away, but have learned that it only puts you in a worse situation. When you see him driving go nose level or slightly down to gain speed and when he's close d600 or so, slide to one side and barrel roll. Then start a slow climb while maintaining your speed. rinse and repeat. This way you have a good chance of getting a equal footing with him. The goal is to run him out of energy while gaining yours.

[hammer]

The Mastering the Merge series by Rocketman. Part 2 deals with a higher enemy.

Defeating the Alt Monkey by StarHawk

Avoiding BnZ by Brooke Anderson

Lots of good info in these write-ups.

Regards,

Hammer

[The Fugitive]

Diving away may equalize your "E", but then your both screaming along close to compression and can't maneuver that well.... and he's still on your 6 ! If he is diving strait down on you (your watching him from your "up" view), he's going for a kill shot, best you can do is roll and point you wing towards him as he goes to guns. This gives him the smallest profile to shoot at. If he doesn't kill you he is going to pass well below you as he tries to pull back up due to all that "E". Go a bit nose low and follow to push the attack, of pick your exit path and run.

Most of these attacks, if done well will have the alt monkey circle until he has you in front of his 3-9 line. He'll then roll into an attack pass from your rear quarter picking an angle that gives him a shot with the least amount of maneuvering. For these, start a slightly nose low turn to either side. Tighten the turn as the enemy closes, how fast depends on how far out he was when you started. What you need to do is be close to blacking out by the time he is 1K out. As he goes to guns, pull up and turn in the opposite direction you were turning.

The tightening turn forces the enemy to turn also to continue for his shot. As you get it close to black out you could force him to shoot in a blackout...which really screws up your aim, or at least puts you under his nose to get the lead he needs for his shot. Once you get use to the "pull up and turn in the opposite direction" maneuver (which he can't see because you are under his nose) you will have a shot opportunity. Murdr use to have a great film showing this move. If you search for it I'm sure you'll find it. Murdrs a bit of a pack rat and doesn't throw stuff away, so I'm sure it's still posted 

[Kitt18]

Thanks guys. That is a huge help.
 

[jerkins]

I made a video about forcing an over shoot a while back.  Here is the link, hope it helps.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,239112.0.html

[Bruv119]

If the alt monkey is smart and doesn't commit, turn and pulls back up to reset his pass. 

You have to change direction,  build your speed backup and make sure he has to dive back down to catch up with you.  Then attempt to setup another overshoot.  

If you sit underneath him, waiting for it, you will be BnZed to death.  Now most guys may tug it back down and start turning with you = easy meat. 


Had a good example of this earlier today me in Spit 8 vs Arch in his 109K4.  Eventually after our exchanges I had enough Energy to force him to run away and extend out of the fight.   We spent around 5 minutes toying with each other both knowing what would get us killed and eventually we went from me getting BnZed to him having to bug out or die. 

[PFactorDave]

If the alt monkey is smart and doesn't commit, turn and pulls back up to reset his pass. 

You have to change direction,  build your speed backup and make sure he has to dive back down to catch up with you.  Then attempt to setup another overshoot.  

If you sit underneath him, waiting for it, you will be BnZed to death.  Now most guys may tug it back down and start turning with you = easy meat. 


Had a good example of this earlier today me in Spit 8 vs Arch in his 109K4.  Eventually after our exchanges I had enough Energy to force him to run away and extend out of the fight.   We spent around 5 minutes toying with each other both knowing what would get us killed and eventually we went from me getting BnZed to him having to bug out or die. 

Somebody was above you?  Wow....   

[Bruv119]

now now,

Have you had trouble avoiding the alt monkey aswell   .

[PFactorDave]

Have you had trouble avoiding the alt monkey aswell   .

Hehe, would you care for a banana?

[Masherbrum]

90% of the time, I turn to not allow them a shot and climb right to em.    Preferably Head on and negating "their advantage".    Most of the time, a good fight ensues.   

[CAP1]

Is there any illustration/tips anyone can give on avoiding the high alt dive attack. Usually I wait until the attacking con is in a steep dive, then dive and roll against and under the vertical axis of the other plane. Typically I avoid the initial attack, but I appear to place myself in a situation where I give up my six quickly as I come out of my flip.

i don't have any illustrations, but i'm generally in slower hard turning aircraft. i turn into em, when it looks like they're cookin along pretty good, and try to incorporate a shallow climb with that. works sometimes. quite often, i too, end up in the tower from them.
 
 me zeke5b, vs ponyb........he comes screaming in at me, from about 8k above. i turn HARD into him, he miss's, i immel, as i know i'm not gona catch him no matrter that. but....... i did remove some of his alt advantage. i did the same thing on his 2nd pass, and almost coalt now......bt then he extended......2 sectors.

[PFactorDave]

but then he extended......2 sectors.

   Isn't that always the case with those "fast" rides....  As soon as they don't have an enormous E advantage, it's time to rtb, usually due to lack of fuel ::wink wink::

[CAP1]

  Isn't that always the case with those "fast" rides....  As soon as they don't have an enormous E advantage, it's time to rtb, usually due to lack of fuel ::wink wink::

 

yea.....although i'm not too surprised he wouldn't turn......but he still had enough speed to have tried to work me over a bit.

[Shane]

well here's what i do when i have a higher con above me and appears to be interested...

i'll try and go into a shallow dive to build up however much speed i need - i try to time it so the con is about 2k behind and committed to his pass - which is around 350-400 for most rides.

as the con nears 1k give or take (judging closure is important) i turn fairly hard (into blackout for a sec) left or right and upwards and as i continue my turn i ease up g-force and reacquire the con, usually just missing his shot, and roll back onto him for a snap shot.

here's a film of *me* being the higher con and the hurri doing what i'm referring to.  in that encounter i wasn't concerned with a quick kill as much as i was trying to get inside the hurri's head.

it's 9 mins of joy... and repeated examples of how to avoid a higher con - he did die tho', could've been sooner.  side note: the hurri driver likes to fly low on the deck 3k and below, effectively taking away some options.  in the MA the idea is the same, just be sure not to follow up the rope too far.

http://www.speedyshare.com/713174482.html