Super Tanks

[skippy]

I know this is Aces High a flight sim evolving into a great all aspects combat sim, but the tanking issues dealing with ease  of destruction seems unfounded , tanks without aircover have always been easier targets for aircraft as with all weapons vs airpower . Even read of tanks being skip killed by aircraft deflecting 50 cals off the ground behind them at they're cheesy belly plates , kinda like "barking" a squirrel.  So if someone wants to use a tank to destroy a whole Headquarters or a whole city  or base for that matter they better be very crafty or have aircover. I still feel we need better ground AA unit something that can reach out and touch someone at greater distances or maybe an artillery unit that can apply indirect fire onto a base at greater distances to destroy targets.  All in all a tank is still no match for an attack aircraft even in now in the year 2000.

[Fishu]

 

Originally posted by skippy:
I know this is Aces High a flight sim evolving into a great all aspects combat sim, but the tanking issues dealing with ease  of destruction seems unfounded , tanks without aircover have always been easier targets for aircraft as with all weapons vs airpower . Even read of tanks being skip killed by aircraft deflecting 50 cals off the ground behind them at they're cheesy belly plates , kinda like "barking" a squirrel.  So if someone wants to use a tank to destroy a whole Headquarters or a whole city  or base for that matter they better be very crafty or have aircover. I still feel we need better ground AA unit something that can reach out and touch someone at greater distances or maybe an artillery unit that can apply indirect fire onto a base at greater distances to destroy targets.  All in all a tank is still no match for an attack aircraft even in now in the year 2000.

But making it extra hazardous to be in a tank is BS too.
no 20mm goes through front plate of Pz-IVh, even though its not a Tiger.
but Hispano tears its way through too easy.
In real life, you should be more favoring rockets and bomb than cannon - in AH, you favor cannons instead of rockets or bombs, shouldnt be like this.
Also to bounce any .50 calibers, tanks needs to be on a hard terrain, in soft terrain, those would just dig in deep... (we dont have much hard terrain here!)
If Hispano can kill tank like it does, then I must require that also every 20mm can do that. Currently difference in tank killing between MG151/20 and Hispano is *HUGE*, which does not make sense for the "gameplay"
It takes almost all the ammo of Fw190A-8 to kill tank in AH (even more at times), but can take only half or less of spitfires ammo, and even less from F4u-1c (even if attacking against front).
Its either downgrade for hispanos against tanks or upgrade for the russian and german cannons.

[Soda]

This whole, 20mm vs tanks thing has become more of a troll than a discussion.  I'm crazy to even become involved but here goes:

Fishu,
  You used to be able to kill 12 tanks a sortie in a hog-c, easy, now you might get 3.  I've spent the entire ammo load of a Spit9 for 1 tank kill, and I can shoot straight and get hits.  The facts of ballistics, pointed out in several other posts in almost every forum, show that hispano's could kill panzers while MG141's should have a serious problem (velocity, round weight, etc).  I'll admit, I kill tanks with cannons though I try to use my rockets and bombs more often now since the cannons are much less effective than in previous versions.

If you drive your tank around with no M16 or fighter cover present, guess what, someone is going to be able to set you up to die... fly around to pick his angle, and dive on you without you being able to do anything about it.  Whether it is from the front/side/rear/top is just a matter of whether the person spends a couple more seconds to set up his run properly.

I just don't see what the point is other than to argue about "game-play" issues where someone flying something without hispano's wants the same abilities as if they had hispanos.  Let's face it, the "down with the hog-c" posts are drying up since with the de-tuning of the hispano's it not quite the uber-bird it once was (I still respect them though, 4 cannons of any type are a problem).  I'd guess this is mostly in regards to the detuning of the hispanos since that was the big reason the hog-C was so successful (not the only reason, but the main reason bad pilots were good in it).

Nothing personal Fishu, but what is the real problem you have with the hispanos?  Is it gameplay related or do you think that they are really overmodelled?  I think the 100's of technical posts and historical accounts (you have to think that at least some of them are accurate) say that it was possible to kill tanks.  From the frontal aspect, well sure, the main armour should proclude you from getting a kill... unless the rounds hit a viewport.  The front isn't totally impervious as the armour plate is not totally uniform.

I think the situation is pretty good and will only get better.  With the Ostwind in the next release you have to figure that attacking anything on the ground is going to me more amount to suicide.  One 37mm hit and you won't have to both with bailing out.. you'll just explode.

Like I said, nothing personal, but if you want to make a change, let's hear what it really is.  The MG141 and Hispano were very different guns, as all guns should be with different characteristics and abilities.  That's what makes them interesting.  I really doubt Pyro will make any changes unless there is some reason that can clearly be pointed out as being a problem whether it technically related, or maybe a gameplay issue if he feels it's warrented.

Oh well, enough rambling.. let's just get to the root of your real hispano problem (gameplay or technical) and see if anyone else thinks it warrents a change.

Soda
The Wrecking Crew
"My opinion is my own, except the parts I borrowed."   - me