Author Topic: A6M  (Read 5922 times)

Offline MaSonZ

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A6M
« on: December 09, 2008, 01:02:10 PM »
Why is the A6m's ENY at 20? other than it being fragile, its got good guns, can turn circles around any most any other plane, if not any other plane, and its climb is amazing. sure, its fragile and slow, but 20ENY due ti that? i must be missing something....
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Offline Lusche

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Re: A6M
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 01:12:12 PM »
It may be the best turner.. but for most fighters in LW arena a A6M is easy to avoid. Just fly away from it. Ping it once and it will burn.
Lack of speed and the tremendous vulnerability are more than sufficient in justifying the 20 ENY. For comparison, 109K4, G14, Spit IX are ENY20 too.

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Offline MaSonZ

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Re: A6M
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 01:40:39 PM »
In MWP its ENY 25 though, thats also nagging at me...why is it lower ENY in LW than in MW?
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: A6M
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 03:34:40 PM »
Meh.. dont pay any attention to HTC's system of scoring of ENY or OBJ in the late war arena.  It is so FUBAR'd it isnt even funny.    :rolleyes:

The Fw190A-8 is 31 ENY and the Fw190D-9 has a 15 ENY.  Explain that one.
The P47N is 5 ENY, but the P47D-40 has an ENY of 20.  Huh?
The Spit14 is perked, but the Spit16 is not...    :confused:
The Mossie has an OBJ score of 10 but the IL-2 has a OBJ score of 25.  Surely if the A20 and IL-2 have an OBJ score of 25 the Mossie deserves it as well and so do a whole host of other ground attack aircraft.

One would think that HTC would evaluate thier ENY system of scoring from time to time (4 times yearly?) and balance the scoring in some manner.  I cant see it taking too long to glance at the stats and adjust the ENY accordingly.  There is no reasoning behind their system.  Is it based on the actual ability of the plane in WWII or the "ability" of a plane on paper?  Maybe with some planes.  Is it based on actual in game performance stats?  Perhaps some, but even then it isnt balanced.

I wish they'd realize their OBJ scoring is screwy as well.  Why would the IL-2 earn more perk points for taking out a building than a Mossie?  Is it based on the ability of the plane in game, the actual role of the plane in WWII, or is it to balance those planes that are specifc to a role but are not at the top of the ladder for ability (case in point: SBD and D3A.  Both are dive bombers but are easily surpassed by late war multi-purpose aircraft and they both have high ONJ scores).     

The better OBJ scores should be given to those aircraft that actually perfomed those attack or bombing roles in WWII.  The Fw190F-8 was meant to hit ground targets, the Fw190A-8 and D-9 were meant to hit bombers... yet they all have the same OBJ score.  Aircraft like the P38J/L, P47D25/40/N, F4UD/C/4, F6F-5, Typhoon/Tempest, or any other diver bomber should have a higher OBJ score than the Spitfire I/V/IX/XIV, P40B, C202/205, etc.  But currently... they all have an OBJ score of 10.   :confused:     

HTC should start from ground zero with their ENY scoring their fighter/attack aircraft.  Have an unofficial scoring system.  Score each individuals plane's in game ability 1-5 in each of the following categories: Average speed 20k>; Turn radius; Average Climb Rate 20k>; Range; Firepower/gun packages; ord packages/ability.  Take the best and take the worst and score everything based on those standards.  Anything with top marks in three or more categories earns a low ENY (12>).  Obvious top performers are going to be the P51D, Spit16, George, and a few others already in the upper ENY ranks.  However, some aircraft like the Fw190A-8, P38J/L, 109K-4/G-14, C205, P47D-40, and F6F5 would probably take a hike in ENY scoring.  Many plane would see a decrease in ENY, like the Ta152, Spit14, P47N, F4F, FM2, and a few others.

HTC should also start from scratch with their bomber scoring.  To perk the Ar234 for its speed and not the Lancaster for its ord tonnage seems a bit odd, really.  Apply a similar scoring system to the bombers just like they would do for the fighter/attack aircraft with obvious flexibility towards a few of the attributes.  Defensive armament would be a factor as well.  Obviously, the Lancaster would be the top dog as no other bomber can come close to destroying as much in one bomber run as the Lanc can.  Why not perk it?  Apply the same rationale to the Lancaster as HTC does to the rest of the airacraft?  The top dog gets perked.  The destuctive ability of the Lanc is not appreciated and perking it would see to it that it would be.  The speed of the Ar234 is perked... why not the ords of the Lanc?  In the matter of OBJ scoring, each and every bomber or bomber/attack aircraft should have an equal or higher OBJ score than any fighter/attack aircraft.  Aircraft specialized in bombing or attacking ground targets deserve a bit higher of a reward for doing so, IMO. 

Wow.. I just wrote a book.  Sorry.   :frown:   

 :)
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Offline Bronk

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Re: A6M
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2008, 04:07:30 PM »
Meh.. dont pay any attention to HTC's system of scoring of ENY or OBJ in the late war arena.  It is so FUBAR'd it isnt even funny.    :rolleyes:

The Fw190A-8 is 31 ENY and the Fw190D-9 has a 15 ENY.  Explain that one.Gee top spped would have nothing to do with it.
The P47N is 5 ENY, but the P47D-40 has an ENY of 20.  Huh?Hmm no uber wep on that N ehh?
The Spit14 is perked, but the Spit16 is not...    :confused:You're close on this but sadly off. Neither should be perked.
The Mossie has an OBJ score of 10 but the IL-2 has a OBJ score of 25.  Surely if the A20 and IL-2 have an OBJ score of 25 the Mossie deserves it as well and so do a whole host of other ground attack aircraft.Now if we could just het the damn IL-2 and A-20 to be as fast as the skeeter ohh and quad hizookas.


 :cry :cry :cry
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 04:09:44 PM by Bronk »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: A6M
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2008, 04:14:01 PM »
Meh.. dont pay any attention to HTC's system of scoring of ENY or OBJ in the late war arena.  It is so FUBAR'd it isnt even funny.    :rolleyes:

The Fw190A-8 is 31 ENY and the Fw190D-9 has a 15 ENY.  Explain that one.

Uhmmm... The D-9 can run away and catch almost everything, outclimbs most other fighters.. thus very often able to engage and disengage at will. Ít may just not have an even lower ENY cause that speed and acceleration is almost it'S inly asset. Powerful? Yes, but somewhat limited.

In an A-8 you have much less options. Basically. you can't outturn, you can't climb away and most often you can't run away either. The strengths it has (roll, firepower) need some very good SA and/or teamwork to make 'em shine.
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Offline Bosco123

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Re: A6M
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2008, 04:14:27 PM »
Only reason why the other FW-190 series has a higher ENY than the D-9 is because of its speed. If you really want to look at it properly, why does the TA-152 have an ENY of 5, and all of the other FW-190 series have a higher ENY? especially the D-9, IIRC the D-9 is faster than the TA-152, at lower alts. And to really get technical, the 110 has more 30mm rounds than the TA-152 and it has an ENY of 10.


Back on topic, the A6M does not have strong guns, at range, you have to get real close to get any damage on a plane. It is a good turner, but like Snailman said, its like a match ready to light.
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Offline Boozeman

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Re: A6M
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2008, 05:03:53 PM »
Quote
In an A-8 you have much less options. Basically. you can't outturn, you can't climb away and most often you can't run away either. The strengths it has (roll, firepower) need some very good SA and/or teamwork to make 'em shine.

The same applies for the A-5 too, though. What it might gain in turn and climb, it looses in speed, firepower, endurance. Yet it has a lower ENY rating. And if we look at the F-8, the A-8 is pretty much better in every aspect except tank busting, and it's ENY rating is even significantly lower.

Quote
Only reason why the other FW-190 series has a higher ENY than the D-9 is because of its speed. If you really want to look at it properly, why does the TA-152 have an ENY of 5, and all of the other FW-190 series have a higher ENY? IIRC the D-9 is faster than the TA-152, at lower alts

Well the D9 may be faster at lower alts, but the 152 has some things on the Dora though:

- not that much slower (even less when you need proper endurance)
- much better turner
- twice as lethal
- proper endurance without the need of a DT

While I dont wanna argue about specific ENY numbers, I can see why the 152 has a lower ENY as the Dora.


Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: A6M
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 07:51:09 PM »
:cry :cry :cry

If you cant stop and read what I posted and take in the entire bit of notation, then go scratch your arse elswhere. 

1> If "top speed" is your answer to my point regarding the A-8/D-9, then you obviously cant read deeper than the print.  The Dora has a faster speed, the A-8 has far greater firepower.  While we're at it, the A-8 can out turn the Dora, too.  Not much, but enough for me to use vs a Dora while in an A-8.  Say again why the 31 ENY for the A-8?  I agree with the 15 ENY for the Dora, btw. 

2> There is no difference between the P47N and P47D-40 'cept for range and WEP time.  Guns and ords are the same.  Say again why there is a 15 ENY spread?  Your reply is as empty as your first.

3> Actually, I'm not vouching for the Spit16 to be perked but rather the Spit14 to be unperked.  My main issue is the lack of consitancy.  My bad in the lack of clarity.  However, there are multiple fighter planes that are perked that the Spit16 can walk all over at all alts.

4> Again, you missed the point completely regarding the Mossi/IL-2/A20 OBJ arguement.  We're not comparing guns, ords, and speed, we're comparing roles.  Speed is a factor in ENY, and HTC has the Mossi at 25.  Are you in 7th grade?  You must be a Quake FPS veteran.  The ENY is based off of HTC's perceived ability score for each plane (or so it seems), while the OBJ score seems to me scaled for a planes specific "role".  Since the Mossi Mk6 was used mostly as an attack plane, ya know... vs ground targets... just like the IL-2 and A20 then why not a better score for it and many of the other ground pounders in the game?  Why is it not being recognised as such?  Same goes for all the ground pounders that have been grouped together with the fighters. 

Consistancy and reasoning, I see very little of it in HTC's aplication of OBJ scoring and there are some major gaps in their application of ENY scores as well.



« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 07:53:14 PM by SmokinLoon »
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Offline Motherland

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Re: A6M
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 08:26:39 PM »
The Dora out runs and outclimbs the Anton-8 by a significant margin. And, despite what you say, the Dora has a tighter turn radius and higher turn rate than the Anton-8. The Anton-8 really is the black-sheep of the 190 family, IMO, almost like the 109G6. You'd be better off taking up the Anton-5 or the Dora for anything you want to do in the Anton-8 beside buff hunting.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 08:31:25 PM by Motherland »

Offline Bronk

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Re: A6M
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2008, 08:30:32 PM »
The Dora out runs and outclimbs the Anton-8 by a significant margin. And, despite what you say, the Dora has a tighter turned radius and higher turn rate than the Anton-8. The Anton-8 really is the black-sheep of the 190 family, IMO, almost like the 109G6. You'd be better off taking up the Anton-5 or the Dora for anything you want to do in the Anton-8 beside buff hunting.
Shhh he is pontificating.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: A6M
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2008, 08:34:41 PM »
Shhh he is pontificating.

Another insightful and well thought responce.   ;)   Well spoken!   :rolleyes:
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Offline Bronk

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Re: A6M
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2008, 08:52:33 PM »
If you cant stop and read what I posted and take in the entire bit of notation, then go scratch your arse elswhere. 

1> .  Say again why the 31 ENY for the A-8?   Because it's a frigging brick with guns, unless flown by the best... all it can do is pick.The D9 is much, much more survivable.

2> There is no difference between the P47N and P47D-40 'cept for range and WEP time.  Guns and ords are the same.  Say again why there is a 15 ENY spread?  Your reply is as empty as your first.Now tell me what wep does for it hmmm.. climb rate and speed are silly. Ohh and it is the fastest prop plane in the game.

3> Actually, I'm not vouching for the Spit16 to be perked but rather the Spit14 to be unperked.  My main issue is the lack of consitancy.  My bad in the lack of clarity.  However, there are multiple fighter planes that are perked that the Spit16 can walk all over at all alts. Hyperbole.   It comes down to the pilot, if you haven't figured it by now, you wont. 

4> Again, you missed the point completely regarding the Mossi/IL-2/A20 OBJ arguement.  We're not comparing guns, ords, and speed, we're comparing roles.  Speed is a factor in ENY, and HTC has the Mossi at 25.  Are you in 7th grade?  You must be a Quake FPS veteran. LMAO AW since 97...and you? The ENY is based off of HTC's perceived ability score for each plane (or so it seems), while the OBJ score seems to me scaled for a planes specific "role".  Since the Mossi Mk6 was used mostly as an attack plane, ya know... vs ground targets... just like the IL-2 and A20 then why not a better score for it and many of the other ground pounders in the game?  Why is it not being recognised as such?  Same goes for all the ground pounders that have been grouped together with the fighters.  Dahhh.  speed  makes it more survivable. Ya know get in and out quick? Harder to intercept? Ohh and what does more damage to toolsheds? AP rounds from say an A-20 and the IL-2.... or the quad HE firing hizookas on the mossie?  That's why less points for the mossie.

Consistancy and reasoning, I see very little of it in HTC's aplication of OBJ scoring and there are some major gaps in their application of ENY scores as well.



It's while not perfect, your whines are not pointing the inconsistencies. :aok  Well.. cept for the Mk XIV.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 09:03:50 PM by Bronk »
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Online Oldman731

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Re: A6M
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2008, 09:44:03 PM »
1> If "top speed" is your answer to my point regarding the A-8/D-9, then you obviously cant read deeper than the print.  The Dora has a faster speed, the A-8 has far greater firepower.  While we're at it, the A-8 can out turn the Dora, too.  Not much, but enough for me to use vs a Dora while in an A-8.  Say again why the 31 ENY for the A-8? 

...errr...from my experience, those two planes aren't even remotely in the same class.  Dora is a ballerina compared to the A-8 (as is almost any other aircraft) (including many bombers).

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Offline humble

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Re: A6M
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2008, 10:58:47 PM »
If we look at the A6m5 it had less then  a 1/1 k/d ratio last tour (LWA) ~9500/10500 vs the hurricane IIc's ~8400/6200. The spitIX and 109F are both roughly 1/1. Realistically the zeke should be a 25+ ENY plane...

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