Author Topic: Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please  (Read 650 times)

Offline Qrsu

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Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please
« on: December 21, 2008, 02:37:41 AM »
Hey all... I've really been trying to improve my ACM lately, normally while flying E-style fighters (109s, P-38s, P-51s...) and have been getting into some good fights, I guess, but never coming out on top. Was just wondering if any of you guys would mind critiquing a fight of mine (109G-14 vs 109 K4) where I end up coming up short in the end. I know there are a bunch of mistakes in my decision making but I've been having a hard time learning from my mistakes. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  :salute

http://www.4shared.com/file/76945093/9575539f/109G14v109k4.html

EDIT: Due to using TrackIR there are no head movements saved in the film. I usually view them using "Fixed", hopefully it won't be too much of a hinderence.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 02:40:24 AM by Qrsu »
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Offline dtango

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Re: Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2008, 10:34:53 AM »
Badboy has the best threads on rolling scissors.  Do an advanced forum search with "rolling scissors" as the keywords and "badboy" as the author.

Here's one of his threads on the topic:
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,184939.15.html

Here's Badboy's diagram that he usually uses:



In scissors contests, flat or rolling, the fighter with the slowest relative forward velocity wins.  In a rolling scissors that means you want your helix angle of rolling to be as steep as you can.  Badboy explains it the details the best so study his advice.

I took a quick gander at your film.  Overall I thought you did fairly well.  There are various things that I noted but the one thing that really stood out to me to re-evaluate is throttle management.  Why were you modulating throttle as much as you were, especially in the vertical and rolling scissors?  You were reducing your throttle a lot. 

In a rolling scissors particularly you're usually in sustained maneuvering below corner so you want as much thrust/power available as you can get to maintain your best sustained turn rate.  2ndly if you look at Badboy's diagram you want to be the RED aircraft that is increasing it's rolling cylinder in the fight meaning a steeper helix and thus you want all the energy you have available to get around the bottom and make those steeper climbing maneuvers around the cylinder.

Tango, XO
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2008, 11:00:33 AM »
I took a quick gander at your film.  Overall I thought you did fairly well.  There are various things that I noted but the one thing that really stood out to me to re-evaluate is throttle management.  Why were you modulating throttle as much as you were, especially in the vertical and rolling scissors?  You were reducing your throttle a lot.

Some fighters seem to benefit from reducing the throttle a bit as you come over the top, i.e. you'll get your nose down more quickly, while others wallow.  The 109 series is in the latter category in my experience.  Wait till your nose is below the horizon before you reduce the throttle.  There were multiple places in that film where your aircraft had stalled out and was rolling involuntarily, probably from reducing the throttle too much.
gavagai
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Offline Mace2004

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Re: Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2008, 12:04:05 PM »
Looks like a very fun fight...not often in the MA that you don't get picked in the middle of one of these.  Also, great matchup between the K and G14.

I'll echo what dtango said about the scissors, remember you want to work to a position on his extended six and let his down range travel move him out in front.  In this fight, once you got him in front you became too agressive and almost always immediately put your lift vector on him and went for the crossing shots.  The problem with this is that you are giving yourself almost exclusively high track crossing angles and these are very difficult snapshots to connect with.  If you had been a bit more patient and worked behind him more rather than going for every crossing shot you would not have flown out in front of him as often as you did.  Of course if you're really good with the crossing shots (although neither of you did well here) then that would be the quickest kill so you can move on to others.

Also, think in terms of aligning your fuselage with him.  Work behind him and maneuver such that you'll be aligned with his flight path.  There were several instances where you rolled away from him rather than with him.  T2+46, 5+29, 6+16 are good examples.  For instance, at 2+46 you rolled away (left) and gave him separation and turning room but if you had rolled right you would have been closer to aligning your fuselage with his.

The next problem I saw is that on several occasions rather than continuing a pull up into him as he came over the top you rolled away and trapped him on your six (T2+50 and 3+34 for example).  Had he had better throttle control he should have been able to saddle in on you several times and that would have been that.  Remember that as he comes over the top he needs turning room.  If you pull directly into him for a close pass you take that away but by turning away you handed it to him.  If you're defensive get closer and jam him to take away his maneuvering room.  No, not ram, jam.

You had too many level turns.  At T4+10 you were above him with an e advantage.  You could have gone up in a spiral at that point instead you stayed level and wasted that extra e.

For the most part your throttle management was pretty good, but you may have been trying to compensate a bit too much for poor positioning.  It was mostly your lift vector positioning that caused the overshoots that you had.  If you can work your position better you can stay on the throttle more and maintain your e better.  There were a couple of times where your roll off to the left at low speed may have been due to your throttle.  Back off out of wep at slow speeds and the 109 will roll right better.  Once you get your turn than get back on the throttle.  Another thought on this in the vertical is to try to position yourself for left turns, especially over the top (and especially against airplanes like the K4).  If you're following someone up...offset to the right a bit and as he comes down you'll be able to keep full power with a left roll.

Last, gunnery.  As I mentioned neither of you did very well here and there were a lot of missed opportunities.  Sometimes, especially with closely matched airplanes and pilots snapshots are almost all you'll get so work on them.  In almost every shot you fired late.  Think of a snapshot as shooting from the hip.  Point in front, fire early and let him fly into the rounds.

Again, looked like a very fun fight between two very evenly matched machines and pilots <S>
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 12:17:18 PM by Mace2004 »
Mace
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Offline Qrsu

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Re: Rolling scissors... 1v1 help please
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2008, 12:54:54 PM »
Looks like a very fun fight...not often in the MA that you don't get picked in the middle of one of these.  Also, great matchup between the K and G14...

Thank you for pointing out a lot of mistakes I made, I will definitely look over them carefully and work on them. This was the sort of response I was hoping to get! :)

I appreciate all the responses, after reading Dtango and Gavagai's responses I went back up today and tried to watch my throttle a bit more, using the vertical in those situations and while I've yet to really win a duel like that I'm feeling more and more confident.

I will try to film a few more of these and post them later today, hopefully there will be some improvement.  :D
Thanks,

Qrsu

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