Respect - Honor - Fair Play

[Banshee7]

EDIT: nvm

[Lye-El]

Yeah we get it...

Your trying to say that Rook/Knit horde against the Bish its Honorable..... yeah we see that alot.  Every day something honorable is being done.... wtg.

Psst....The Knights say it's the Rook/Bish horde against the Knights.

[WMLute]

Bosco, you weren't here when I started the ball rolling on "The Truce" that got the Fighter Town back on the Donut Map.    Not one single Knight craft was shot down by a Rook and vice versa.   But you should've heard the whines when the Bish base in FT was getting vultched.   I had long logged off, but knew it was eminent.    They whined for hours.    But, they deserved it, as would any other country deliberately ruining fun for others.

Long live 'the Truce'!

 

'The Truce' has to be one of my all time favorite moments in Aces High.  It ranks right up there with my first King of the Hill win, and several Scenarios.

Allow me to enlighten those that have no clue as to what happened and fill ya' in on what Karaya and I are talking about.

This was no mere 'truce'.

It was an EVENT! 

A happening! 

A reaffirmation that good wins over evil!


the Truce
Once upon a time when Aces High only had one Main Arena we had a map that had a true "Fighter Town" in it.  It was setup much like "Dweeb Lake" is in the Dueling Arena with one base per country on 5-7k plateaus around a small lake and surrounded by 20k mountains.

It was a wonderfull map.  Land grabbers loved it because of the base setups while furballers loved it because of the Fighter Town and the constant furball.

The unwritten rule was to not bomb or try to capture Fighter Town.

That particular evening some Bishops decided to capture the other two Fighter Town bases and deprive a large percentage of the AcesHigh population the ability to go there, duke it out, and have fun.  There was always a nice little furball going on in Fighter Town, similar to what we have in the DA now, but with less acne and squeaks.

Karaya (Rook) private messaged me (Knit) about getting our respective Fighter Town bases back and we started formulating plans on how to accomplish just that.  It took at least an hour to get setup and organized.  We enlisted the aid of many squad CO's and eventually had several missions of Rooks and Knits making the 2+ sector 20k run to reclaim what was ours from the griefers that had taken it from us.  Fighters, bombers, goon drivers, all winging their way towards destiny.

It was far from easy.  The Bishops put up a staunch defence and there was a gigantic blood bath that lasted for several hours.  It is fairly easy to defend a field when you have two others under a sector away and the attackers have to fly over two sectors and grab to 20k to even get there. As I recall the Rooks managed their capture first and then flew over to the base the Knights were attacking to support and assist us in getting our field back.

It was indeed a sight to behold!  All those Rooks and Knights sharing the same airspace and working together towards a common goal.  When I saw Rook fighters escorting the Knight goon I almost teared up.

It is a rare thing to have two countries share the same vision and help each other on that scale.  (litterally 100+ Rook/Knight planes in one area)  It was one of those "moments" that should never be forgotten as it also represented all that is good (and bad *cough* <FT Griefers>) in the game.

What amazes me the most when I look back on it was we that did not have a single Knight or Rook kill each other in the area untill we had both had our bases back.  It was a special moment in Aces High and one that should never be forgotten.

There was much honor and respect shown that wonderous night in the Aces High Main Arena.

I would like to add that we did NOT then go and capture the Bishop Fighter Town base.  Many wanted to out of revenge, and much arguing ensued, but to do so would have put us on the same level as the griefer dweebs and sully what just happened.  Fair play and level heads won out and the Bishops were allowed to keep their base.





Wish I still had the films.

[FALCONWING]

Falconwing posted a few thoughts, but again he jumps right to the defensive. They have a big squad. I don't see them running a lot of NOE mission. They use a good set of tactics, as well as using the map and terrain to decide the best route to take for gaining their objective.They do however, on occasion use far more people than they need and slip into the "horde" grouping. This is where I think the "Respect and Honor" stuff should come into play. They already KNOW they have numbers over the enemy, 3 and 4 to 1 most times I've gone against them. Wouldn't sending in just the newer guy with less skill alone give defenders a chance, and two help to build skills and confidence in the newer players in the squad? You still have your force of better player standing by to help mop up. Training in a big squad like this one must be right at the top of the list for the new guys coming in. What better place to teach them honor and respect! Teach them how to fight, not how to HO. Teach them how to use strategy to capture bases, not brute force.

It should be up to the long standing squads, and old timers to set the scale. Not to slip into the "easyer to do it this way" of doing things. Hold the line and point out to these new squads whats frowned on and whats not. 

I didn't feel I was being defensive...more like offensive

We do train our new pilots but to be honest we don't have many..most of the guys who join BoPs are already skilled players who like what we do and how we do it...more importantly they enjoy the vox chatter and the fact that there are always 10+ guys on except in the a.m.

Sure there are times when we "overkill" but I don't know how to predict in advance the resistance we might encounter and we tend to fly togehter as a squad.  We DO spot and defend successfully against most noe's.  I find it fun and fairly easy to do.  We like working together against cv attacks (probably my fav defense posture).  AND we uncap bases by launching 10 guys simultaneously on different runways and hangers...this is fun as well...

I understand why guys who fly more solo are frustrated with the MA...but the MA hosts up to 400+ players..why not join an active squad and have fun like the rest of us???  the MA is a squad arena...sure you can have fun solo play but you have to have good SA to setup your fun...flying a p-38 or f4u-1d into a furball is bound to be frustrating...

[Urchin]

Fred -

A lot of what I was going to say has already been said, but I'll try to give you a`response that is worth reading.  Shane actually posted a thread I started years ago lamenting the sorry state of gameplay in the MA, so it isn't as if any of this is new.  

When I started playing Aces High, the game was a much smaller place.  During the week, there might be 100 people on during primetime, maybe 150 during the weekend.  The focus of the game was on air to air combat.  There was some base taking, but it certainly wasn't the main focus.  Believe it or not, it actually used to be possible to find a fight by taking off and flying to an enemy base.  About half the time, someone would up and meet you en route.  If not, if you just flew around for a couple minutes someone would take off looking for a fight.  It really was fun.  

That sort of thing stopped about 5 or 6 years ago.

There was still a muted focus on air combat, but by then the base taking craze had begun.    No longer was it possible to find a fight by flying to an enemy base.  Since then, gameplay has just gotten entrenched in that mode.  Last time I came back, I mainly went to the DA to play because that was the only place I could find any kind of fight.

The online values thing is actually sort of a sidebar, and most of my views have already been covered, but you deserve a response.

There are two very different views of what "respectful and honorable" behavior is in AH to be specific, and in online games in general.  I'll try to constrain my examples to AH.  As the focus on gameplay moved away from air combat and towards landgrabbing, there were a number of players who became known as 'jerks' or 'whiners' (depending on who you asked).  They got this reputation because they were somewhat less than gracious to whomever happened to kill them.  To me that highlights the biggest difference in what "respect" is.  The offended folks were angry because they had valiently shot down an opponent (no matter that the guy had already been engaged with 2,3, or X opponents) and given a "<S> amazing fight!" and gotten either nothing or a "nice pick".  To the picker, the pickee was rude and disrespectful.  To the pickee, the picker wasn't worth showing respect to, as he had already demonstrated his lack of respect for other players in general.  Some players even took it to an extreme, tossing out a "<S> nice fight" after killing someone in a flakpanzer, manned ack, or 5" gun.  Granted, I only ever saw one person who (in my opinion) took it to that extreme, but that player (again in my opinion) made a mockery of what I considered honorable behaviour - basically that individual, in my opinion, acted with no class.

As far as me coming back and telling y'all how to play the game, you make a good point.  I tend to dust off the gear and sign up for an account, then play for a week, or a couple days, or a couple hours (last time) and remember why I left.  The gameplay has gone to far away from being an air combat game for me to enjoy it - and I don't think that even if HTC cares (and as long as they are making money, I can't see why they would - it is a business after all) it is within their power to change the way the players use the tools at their disposal.

If there is something I didn't cover in my reply please let me know and I'll try to answer you.  I probably won't be able to get back to you until tommorrow though.

[Urchin]

I understand why guys who fly more solo are frustrated with the MA...but the MA hosts up to 400+ players..why not join an active squad and have fun like the rest of us???  the MA is a squad arena...sure you can have fun solo play but you have to have good SA to setup your fun...flying a p-38 or f4u-1d into a furball is bound to be frustrating...

Actually what I find most frustrating is the last several times I've come back, I couldn't even drag two or three guys away from their herd in order to get a 2/3v1, much less a 1v1 fight.  As soon as the two or three guys chasing get out of icon range of the herd, they turn around and head back.  From what I've seen, 1v1's just don't happen in the MA at all (at least I was never able to drag a single con out of icon range of a herd).  Amazingly enough, that is even true in the 'furball area' of the DA. 

[Shane]

Fred -

A lot of what I was going to say has already been said, but I'll try to give you a`response that is worth reading.  Shane actually posted a thread I started years ago lamenting the sorry state of gameplay in the MA, so it isn't as if any of this is new.  

When I started playing Aces High, the game was a much smaller place.  During the week, there might be 100 people on during primetime, maybe 150 during the weekend.  The focus of the game was on air to air combat.  There was some base taking, but it certainly wasn't the main focus.  Believe it or not, it actually used to be possible to find a fight by taking off and flying to an enemy base.  About half the time, someone would up and meet you en route.  If not, if you just flew around for a couple minutes someone would take off looking for a fight.  It really was fun.  

That sort of thing stopped about 5 or 6 years ago.

There was still a muted focus on air combat, but by then the base taking craze had begun.    No longer was it possible to find a fight by flying to an enemy base.  Since then, gameplay has just gotten entrenched in that mode.  Last time I came back, I mainly went to the DA to play because that was the only place I could find any kind of fight.

The online values thing is actually sort of a sidebar, and most of my views have already been covered, but you deserve a response.

There are two very different views of what "respectful and honorable" behavior is in AH to be specific, and in online games in general.  I'll try to constrain my examples to AH.  As the focus on gameplay moved away from air combat and towards landgrabbing, there were a number of players who became known as 'jerks' or 'whiners' (depending on who you asked).  They got this reputation because they were somewhat less than gracious to whomever happened to kill them.  To me that highlights the biggest difference in what "respect" is.  The offended folks were angry because they had valiently shot down an opponent (no matter that the guy had already been engaged with 2,3, or X opponents) and given a "<S> amazing fight!" and gotten either nothing or a "nice pick".  To the picker, the pickee was rude and disrespectful.  To the pickee, the picker wasn't worth showing respect to, as he had already demonstrated his lack of respect for other players in general.  Some players even took it to an extreme, tossing out a "<S> nice fight" after killing someone in a flakpanzer, manned ack, or 5" gun.  Granted, I only ever saw one person who (in my opinion) took it to that extreme, but that player (again in my opinion) made a mockery of what I considered honorable behaviour - basically that individual, in my opinion, acted with no class.

As far as me coming back and telling y'all how to play the game, you make a good point.  I tend to dust off the gear and sign up for an account, then play for a week, or a couple days, or a couple hours (last time) and remember why I left.  The gameplay has gone to far away from being an air combat game for me to enjoy it - and I don't think that even if HTC cares (and as long as they are making money, I can't see why they would - it is a business after all) it is within their power to change the way the players use the tools at their disposal.

If there is something I didn't cover in my reply please let me know and I'll try to answer you.  I probably won't be able to get back to you until tommorrow though.

This just so totally deserves to be re-quoted.    

[BnZs]

The explanation for this is quite simple Urchin, apart from the notion of  Spits being unwilling to fight 190 A-5s alone, which would be odd. The bandit is afraid he is being drug towards superior numbers or some other such trap. This is true so often in the MA that for the most part I won't chase a bandit who unloads for the deck and gets a good lead on me unless he is running in a direction I know to be relatively "safe".

Actually what I find most frustrating is the last several times I've come back, I couldn't even drag two or three guys away from their herd in order to get a 2/3v1, much less a 1v1 fight.  As soon as the two or three guys chasing get out of icon range of the herd, they turn around and head back.  From what I've seen, 1v1's just don't happen in the MA at all (at least I was never able to drag a single con out of icon range of a herd).  Amazingly enough, that is even true in the 'furball area' of the DA. 

[falcon23]

Long live 'the Truce'!

 

'The Truce' has to be one of my all time favorite moments in Aces High.  It ranks right up there with my first King of the Hill win, and several Scenarios.

Allow me to enlighten those that have no clue as to what happened and fill ya' in on what Karaya and I are talking about.

This was no mere 'truce'.


   And afterwards you all sat around singing KUM-BY-YA????

                   

It was an EVENT! 

A happening! 

A reaffirmation that good wins over evil!


the Truce
Once upon a time when Aces High only had one Main Arena we had a map that had a true "Fighter Town" in it.  It was setup much like "Dweeb Lake" is in the Dueling Arena with one base per country on 5-7k plateaus around a small lake and surrounded by 20k mountains.

It was a wonderfull map.  Land grabbers loved it because of the base setups while furballers loved it because of the Fighter Town and the constant furball.

The unwritten rule was to not bomb or try to capture Fighter Town.

That particular evening some Bishops decided to capture the other two Fighter Town bases and deprive a large percentage of the AcesHigh population the ability to go there, duke it out, and have fun.  There was always a nice little furball going on in Fighter Town, similar to what we have in the DA now, but with less acne and squeaks.

Karaya (Rook) private messaged me (Knit) about getting our respective Fighter Town bases back and we started formulating plans on how to accomplish just that.  It took at least an hour to get setup and organized.  We enlisted the aid of many squad CO's and eventually had several missions of Rooks and Knits making the 2+ sector 20k run to reclaim what was ours from the griefers that had taken it from us.  Fighters, bombers, goon drivers, all winging their way towards destiny.

It was far from easy.  The Bishops put up a staunch defence and there was a gigantic blood bath that lasted for several hours.  It is fairly easy to defend a field when you have two others under a sector away and the attackers have to fly over two sectors and grab to 20k to even get there. As I recall the Rooks managed their capture first and then flew over to the base the Knights were attacking to support and assist us in getting our field back.

It was indeed a sight to behold!  All those Rooks and Knights sharing the same airspace and working together towards a common goal.  When I saw Rook fighters escorting the Knight goon I almost teared up.

It is a rare thing to have two countries share the same vision and help each other on that scale.  (litterally 100+ Rook/Knight planes in one area)  It was one of those "moments" that should never be forgotten as it also represented all that is good (and bad *cough* <FT Griefers>) in the game.

What amazes me the most when I look back on it was we that did not have a single Knight or Rook kill each other in the area untill we had both had our bases back.  It was a special moment in Aces High and one that should never be forgotten.

There was much honor and respect shown that wonderous night in the Aces High Main Arena.

I would like to add that we did NOT then go and capture the Bishop Fighter Town base.  Many wanted to out of revenge, and much arguing ensued, but to do so would have put us on the same level as the griefer dweebs and sully what just happened.  Fair play and level heads won out and the Bishops were allowed to keep their base.





Wish I still had the films.

                 And afterwards you all sat around singing KUM-BY-YA????



 But on a more serious note..After what has been going on in blue the last few days..I am no longer concerned about how people see missions as being hordes,or anything of that nature..

 BISH are getting slammed on both fronts in there for the last 2 days at least..
 
  You guys WHINE about NOE missions because alot of people join them..You whine about AT ALT missions because they have too many people in them to be fun.."Thats just your opinion"...
 You guys WHINE about HORDES...Well the bish in blue have been getting the HUGE numbers against them for 2 days in blue on BOTH fronts..

 SO STOP WITH THE WHINING...ALL SIDES HORDE,ALL SIDES DO WHAT THE YOU SAY YOU DONT LIKE....If you dont like it go to the DA or the AVA....

  ALL BETS ARE OFF...You get what you give..

  Just like lute posted..some guys took tank town,now we dont know who they were,and it probably didnt matter,but what happened..the ONE side got PUNISHED for what a few did..So if you dont like what goes on with what the other team is doing,look around your country,the same thing you dont like is probably going on at an enemy base near you..And it is someone you probably know doing it,but you dont say anything to them,because they pay to play the way they want..

                                                            Falcon23

[WMLute]

Just like lute posted..some guys took tank town,now we dont know who they were,and it probably didnt matter,but what happened..the ONE side got PUNISHED for what a few did..So if you dont like what goes on with what the other team is doing,look around your country,the same thing you dont like is probably going on at an enemy base near you..And it is someone you probably know doing it,but you dont say anything to them,because they pay to play the way they want.

I guess you missed the bit where we didn't go and capture the Bishop base in Fighter town but let them keep it so they too could have fun in Fighter Town.  (And it did take quite a bit of persuasion to get the Knit/Rooks to not capture the Bish FT base)

We didn't "punish" the whole of Bish for what was probably the actions of a small few.

The "THEY DID IT FIRST" argument doesn't hold water with me.  Never has, and hopefull never will.  I hold myself to a higher standard and will not compromise said standard over the actions of others.  Just because THEY were griefer weenies first doesn't give me a free pass to be a griefer weenie.

Which brings the topic back around to Honor and Fair Play.  If you choose to play without it, please at least have the intestinal fortitude to come right and and say so.  Don't try to cast the blame on others for your own behavior.

“Honor has not to be won; it must only not be lost.” - Arthur Schopenhauer

[FALCONWING]

Actually what I find most frustrating is the last several times I've come back, I couldn't even drag two or three guys away from their herd in order to get a 2/3v1, much less a 1v1 fight.  As soon as the two or three guys chasing get out of icon range of the herd, they turn around and head back.  From what I've seen, 1v1's just don't happen in the MA at all (at least I was never able to drag a single con out of icon range of a herd).  Amazingly enough, that is even true in the 'furball area' of the DA. 

Your point is well taken...but I don't think it reflects the character of individual players as much as what was bound to occur when you have 350+ in an arena...especially a small map...

You use terms like "herd" but in a large plane encounter only a small percentage are probably tuned to each other...but green planes help green planes and attack red planes...i think it is that simple...and when there are lots of planes then the 1 v 1's, 2 v 2's disappear....

In air warrior days there would only be 10-20 guys in an arena...you knew not just your countrymates by name but also your opposing pilots...it was that intimate...15 people were a megasquad...so i can understand what it is you are missing...the DA best recreates that experience...it just lacks any true sense of a game or teamplay...so folks come to the MA hoping to get both...

Lets be honest NOE critics (not directed at you Urchin)...Even if there was an noe going on constantly...you are only talking about 30 pilots tops...out of 350-450...that leaves over 300 pilots to dogfight "the way it should be"...so lets not get carried away blaming the NOE squads for "ruining" the gameplay...as Urchin and I have civilly discussed here...it is much more likely related to large volume arenas and the behaviors that more apt to occur in such situations

[Guppy35]

How I present myself in the game and how I interact with other players is what I can control.  No one can make me play another way, or cause me to do anything I don't want to.

The best I can hope for is that the way I play, or how I talk to people might rub off on someone else in a positive way.  If not, so be it. 

Other then that, it's your dime.  The sun still comes up tomorrow, and I'm still not really dying and the planes are free.

[Oldman731]

If you dont like it go to the DA or the AVA....

Lookit that, some wisdom in the rant after all.

Look forward to seeing you folks.

- oldman

[trigger2]

How I present myself in the game and how I interact with other players is what I can control.  No one can make me play another way, or cause me to do anything I don't want to.

The best I can hope for is that the way I play, or how I talk to people might rub off on someone else in a positive way.  If not, so be it. 

Other then that, it's your dime.  The sun still comes up tomorrow, and I'm still not really dying and the planes are free.

True. I try and fly in a way that "leaves a mark." I remember my first time flying AH, I say I'm new, and ask the knights where they need me. A couple guys say that there's no place for a noob like me. But one guy told me that they could use me at such-and-such airfield, and that if I needed any help, to let him know and that he'd be happy to help. I upped, and saw what he meant by help. There were only about 4 of us, and a whole horde of them. I remember someone asking what plane I was flying, and I answered, "How am I supposed to find that out?!", and that's where I learned about the hanger. Now I can ID any plane if I can get a good view on it. I upped, got my butt kicked, and after the other guys secured the field, a couple of 'em asked if I'd like to go into the TA and work with them on a few things. I said sure, went in and learned ALOT of my fundementals, still couldn't put up a good fight, but I made 'em work a bit harder for the kill. When I fly, I remember that, 1) It's a game, and 2) I don't know how long these guys have been playing for when I fight 'em, if they've been playing for a day or two, I want to leave my mark, try and teach them how to bloom in this little community we have, so when I fly, I try and abide by a couple of my rules...
1) Don't HO, but if your guns open up, mine will too shortly-there-after.
2) Never jump into a 1 v. 1 unless someone asks for help in it, then it's fair-game.
3) Never turn anyone down who asks for help, and offer it wherever I see neccessary.
4) Try and learn to fly everyplane out there, it doesn't matter if I get my arse kicked, it's a game, learn the plane, get used to it, the "supers" aren't all that "super."
5) Never shoot off insults, treat people how I wanna be treated.
6) Have fun, it's just a game...



Guppy...
They aren't free, they're 15$ USD a month. 

[RoGenT]

talking about Hordes and NOE missions. I always tease bish about their hordes when they have numbers but nothing serious meant by it when I do. I personally like busting into hordes and NOE missions, even if I end up getting shot down, knowing I made few pilots nervous makes me happy