Author Topic: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??  (Read 917 times)

Offline Latrobe

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Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« on: January 06, 2009, 12:53:12 AM »
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and thought I'd post on what I thought about it. Some people I've seen say that sinking a CV is just too easy. Up some B-24's or LANCs and you can sink a Carrier. Hit it a couple times with a Shore Battery or a 110 when it's soft and you'll sink it. It's not that there's a lack of ack fire to destroy the threats, it's that there isn't enough players going it right! There can only be so much auto-ack then the human players have to pitch in to help out.

On the carrier alone there is 2 mannable twin 5" guns, 2 single 5" guns (or is it 3 now?) 2 quad 40mm's, and a few 20mm's (not to mention all the auto-ack guns!). This only on one ship! If you count the Cruiser, Destroyers, and any PT drivers then you have well over enough firepower to take on 3-4 sets of bombers! and we haven't even taken into account the Air Force!

If you're going to take a base with a Task Group then you need a few things done first before you begin your assault. You need a few pilots to take out the ord at that base and start de-acking/capping. You need you're 8" gunners to start shelling the town as soon as possible, and you need to destroy any Shore Batteries in the area. Once that is all accomplished then you need a second group of pilots to clean up the town, and then head to the field to keep the cap (and to allow the pilots already capping the chance to RTB). When you're in range then you need 2-3 guys to bring in the troops, be it by Goon or LVT. Do that and you usually take the base.

If there's a drawn out battle for the base, and the enemy starts bringing in sets of LANCs from other bases, that doesn't mean that the Carrier is going to die. One thing that rarley happens in CV assualts is that no one stays at high altitude to intercept the incoming bombers. If there are, then those bombers will surely go down in flames before they get close to the carrier to drop their payload. If they get through you're air defence then there is one of two situations that may happen. One: those bombers will be at high alt (usually 10K) when they drop their bombs. That will give your CV plenty of time to take evasive actions to avoid taking a direct hit (9 times out of 10 the bombs do miss if you turn the CV). OR Two: the bombers will be low altitude (from 5K down to the deck), in which they are easy pickings for your 5" gunners, 40mm's, and even the 20mm's.

Just think, If you have some pilot's attacking the field/town (maybe two groups on rotation), another group of pilots flying cover for your fleet at 12-15K, and possibly every position on the Carrier, Crusier, and Destroyers taken by someone then it doesn't seem possible for any amount of bombers to get close to the Carrier no matter how long the battle! (Though sooner or later you will get the base or they will get your carrier)


What are your thought on the vulnerability of Task Groups??

Offline Delirium

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2009, 12:58:38 AM »
I actually like the amount of ack on CV groups, I'd like it even better if there was more. If you go to a spot where a CV is attacking an airbase, it almost always equates to a low alt furball.

My biggest beef is the speed of said CV groups, making torpedo planes almost useless. It is worse yet, CV speeds can't be changed at all, even for scenarios.
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Offline Anaxogoras

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2009, 12:59:50 AM »
What are your thought on the vulnerability of Task Groups??

You are correct that if people are tending the cv then it is much more difficult to sink.  On the other hand, unless the cv is seeing constant action, driving it and defending it is tedious and time consuming.

It would be nice if the cv would automatically take evasive action when bombers are within a certain range if no one is in command.  Similarly, the auto-puffy is great at shooting down fast-moving small-profile fighters, but I've never once seen it shoot down a slow-moving large-profile bomber.  My $.02.
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Offline stephen

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2009, 05:34:41 AM »
Those low alt bombers do alot of killling, usualy coming in from the least unlikly angle is a good way to prosecute an attack on a cv.

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Offline Softail

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2009, 05:52:57 AM »
up B24s.

Fly in at 9-10K feet. (.50, 20mm and 40mm will not fire)

Calibrate then lead ship by 1.5 - 2 ship lengths depending on angle.

Drop 4 bombs at .80 delay

Dead CV.

Fly home with 1/2 rack of bombs while typing "Glug glug glug" on Channel 200.


Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2009, 06:17:32 AM »
Yesterday we had 2 or 3 of the same guys upping PTs, launching fish, and towering. Or trying to, we also killed them dozens of times. Yes there is the argument the CV shouldn't have been brought so near a spawn, and yes there is the argument we should have kept the VH down more then we did, but it was still about so sad and hoakie a thing as you'd ever want to see. One guy I must have killed 10 times myself and I'll bet he upped and launched at least 30 or 40 times, towering or at least trying to , each time he launched.

AH should allow us to make perks when we gun in a CV. Why not? They allow enemies to earn perks when they dump one? Or even hit one. That and put a limit on spawning PTs by individual players. Honestly the silly play I see around Cvs just makes me want to leave the game in disgust. If it isn't the Lanc-stuka-bail goofballs its the PT & bail ones.
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Offline thndregg

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2009, 07:23:21 AM »
Up some B-24's or LANCs and you can sink a Carrier.

You don't even need behemoth Lancs or B24's to kill it. B26's with 500lbs load works consistently at 8K.
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Offline uptown

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2009, 07:37:21 AM »
What you describe Latrobe is a perfect way to handle a base capture with a CV. But most players I've seen won't even take the ords out on the field 1st.

What you're asking for is for 10 or 15 guys that know what they're doing, to be on the same page. Which is rare to say the least (in rookland anyway).

As for as the other side of the coin, I've seen guys at the base being attacked not even attempt to go get bombs to sink anything. I was at a base last week where the CV was right off shore for a good hour before I finally brought bombers to sink the CV and crusier. Then I was deemed the "fun killer" :lol

The town was completely untouched. Seems the knights just brought the boat over to furball  :rolleyes: :salute
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Offline crazyivan

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2009, 01:25:00 PM »

The town was completely untouched. Seems the knights just brought the boat over to furball  :rolleyes: :salute
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Offline dentin

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 01:56:13 PM »
I've been thinking about this for a while now, and thought I'd post on what I thought about it. Some people I've seen say that sinking a CV is just too easy. Up some B-24's or LANCs and you can sink a Carrier. Hit it a couple times with a Shore Battery or a 110 when it's soft and you'll sink it. It's not that there's a lack of ack fire to destroy the threats, it's that there isn't enough players going it right! There can only be so much auto-ack then the human players have to pitch in to help out.

On the carrier alone there is 2 mannable twin 5" guns, 2 single 5" guns (or is it 3 now?) 2 quad 40mm's, and a few 20mm's (not to mention all the auto-ack guns!). This only on one ship! If you count the Cruiser, Destroyers, and any PT drivers then you have well over enough firepower to take on 3-4 sets of bombers! and we haven't even taken into account the Air Force!

If you're going to take a base with a Task Group then you need a few things done first before you begin your assault. You need a few pilots to take out the ord at that base and start de-acking/capping. You need you're 8" gunners to start shelling the town as soon as possible, and you need to destroy any Shore Batteries in the area. Once that is all accomplished then you need a second group of pilots to clean up the town, and then head to the field to keep the cap (and to allow the pilots already capping the chance to RTB). When you're in range then you need 2-3 guys to bring in the troops, be it by Goon or LVT. Do that and you usually take the base.

If there's a drawn out battle for the base, and the enemy starts bringing in sets of LANCs from other bases, that doesn't mean that the Carrier is going to die. One thing that rarley happens in CV assualts is that no one stays at high altitude to intercept the incoming bombers. If there are, then those bombers will surely go down in flames before they get close to the carrier to drop their payload. If they get through you're air defence then there is one of two situations that may happen. One: those bombers will be at high alt (usually 10K) when they drop their bombs. That will give your CV plenty of time to take evasive actions to avoid taking a direct hit (9 times out of 10 the bombs do miss if you turn the CV). OR Two: the bombers will be low altitude (from 5K down to the deck), in which they are easy pickings for your 5" gunners, 40mm's, and even the 20mm's.

Just think, If you have some pilot's attacking the field/town (maybe two groups on rotation), another group of pilots flying cover for your fleet at 12-15K, and possibly every position on the Carrier, Crusier, and Destroyers taken by someone then it doesn't seem possible for any amount of bombers to get close to the Carrier no matter how long the battle! (Though sooner or later you will get the base or they will get your carrier)


What are your thought on the vulnerability of Task Groups??

Pretty much sums up the correct methods when utilizing a Task group to capture a base, ..but, I've never observed it happen and I spend a lot of time gunning in a 5 ''.  Most of the time its "off the Carrier and attempt to cap the base". BUT in the rush, it leaves the SB free to dust the Carrier...seldom fails..cracks me up.  :D 
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Offline druski85

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2009, 02:41:54 PM »
Ar 234's at 8 k with calibration in the neighborhood of 400-410 mph.  Can get to the CV from many sectors away with relative speed (so unless you want to drop ords for a 3-4 sector circle, don't bother) and once over target only a well positioned defender can do anything about it.  5" is tough to land a hit against a target at that speed and alt, and even if you do you're only going to knock out 1 bird before they are over target. 

An F4 at 12k or higher can catch you in a dive, but only if he spots you VERY early and is on the correct side of the CV to intercept.  Even after he dives, anything but a U-4 won't stay with you long. 

Not much even the most ardent defenders can do in this situation.  That boat is purty much screwed -- especially if there are 2 sets of 234's. 

Offline FiLtH

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2009, 03:49:12 PM »
 I would like to see the CV and CA take twice 25,000 lbs to sink, and make the torps warhead power at around 10,000 lbs. Make it so the torp planes made it more worthwhile.

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Offline hyster

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2009, 11:02:02 AM »
the other day i took down a complete task group -CV with a b-25h just by strafing it. i would have got the CV as well but a squaddie came in with 24's to sink it.
the laughable part is that the CA and destroyers i took down in 2 passes on each ship.how can i CA be killed with .50's and a 75mm cannon?

all i did was line up on the outer ship strafing it as i came in and as i got to close to the ship i switched to another inside the group.
the CV was unmanned so all i did was rinse and repeat.

an hour or so l8er the CV was back again and i tried the same tactic, but this time the CV was manned. at low alt i just about got in2 auto ack range when i was killed with the manned 5".

point im trying to make is that the CA can be damage way to easily, .50cal should have no effect on a CA apart from destroying the 20mm mounts and mybe the 40mm mounts.

another tactic i use on CV group when its a way out from the base is to up a 51-d with 2x1000lbs to kill the CA. 2 hits from the bombs will kill the CA. i think the CA should have to damge zones. hull and super structure. 2 2x1000lbs to the hull is ok to kill it but 2 2x000lbs to the super structure should just damage it.

Offline Becinhu

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2009, 08:00:31 PM »
B-17s with 12 500lbers salvo 12 delay .15 come in at 6500-7000 ft lead ship by 3/4 to 1 boat length. Unless the guy in command is good...dead cv. There are a few 5 inch gunners that can hit bombers at that alt, but i can count them on one hand.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Task Groups - Real easy to sink??
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2009, 09:25:51 PM »
I think for the MA's sake, CV's should take about double the current tonnage to sink and CA's take about 3 times the current tonnage to sink.

The only trick is increasing the power of the torps so they have a fair shake.  I think it should remain 2 US torps and 3 Jap/DE torps to sink a CV.  Dont give the spawn hatchling's any more power than they have.  Oh, and up the shore battery's power to keep stride, no need to reduce its ability.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 09:43:45 PM by SmokinLoon »
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