Author Topic: Brewster information thread  (Read 19593 times)

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2009, 08:25:33 AM »
Hiya Pyro!

By the time Brewster Model 239's started seeing combat they were equipped with Vaisala T.h.m.40 reflector sights. T.h.m.40 was a license built Revi 3c/Revi 3d. Unfortunately I haven't really seen much documentation, drawings or pictures of this gunsight. Here are couple of pictures of the original Revi sights that might help a bit with the 3D-modeling. I'll try to locate possible drawings and other reference material regarding this gun sight and get back to you!

I hope it's ok if I'll send the documentation I mentioned earlier to info(at)hitechcreations.com. It's over 15 megs but doubt it'll clutter your mailbox too much. :)

Others,

Try to keep this thread on original topic, please. Pyro was specifically asking info about the Brewster Model 239, the early export model...he wasn't asking about the Naval F2A-variants nor about the later export variants. It will be a lot easier and take a lot less of pyro's time to sort through this thread when it isn't cluttered with off-topic material.

Some pics:

Revi 3C:


Very nice 3D-model of the Revi 3C:

http://gunsight.jp/c/english/sight-e-3D%20Revi3c.htm

Revi 3D:



Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2009, 09:43:38 AM »
Our very own Wasq's pics of the BW-372. 60 odd years in the bottom of the lake isn't the best place to store an aircraft but these pics still very good for details like the pilots seat for example: http://flickr.com/photos/wasq/sets/72157604361588076/
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 09:45:14 AM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline BlauK

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5091
      • http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2009, 02:04:39 PM »
Some translated tidbits from Jukka Raunio: "Lentäjän näkökulma II", 1993 (=Pilot's viewpoint II)

Before the US Navy got its F2A-2:s, Brewster company was allowed to deliver 40 F2A-2:s conversions for land bases (carrier equipment was removed) to Belgium, and they were already designated as version 339B (!!!). Thus the Navy's F2A-2:s were ready only in the end of 1940 and these planes went to USS Saratoga and to USS Lexington in early 1941.

Belgium never got their planes, since they got occupied before the shipments arrived. Instead 6 of them were converted to Finnish versions and the rest were shipped to England, which had ordered 170 F2A-2:s (versions 339E). Most of these were sent to Far-East, where they had little success and got the nickname "Buffalo".

Holland ordered 144 planes, but had the order was cut in half because Brewster could not acquire enough Wright engines. The Dutch planes were designated 339C and 339D. They arrived to Java in Apr 1941 and were fairly successful against Japanese (exchange ratio 2 kills to 1 loss), until their bases were captured.

Last 16 Brewsters (model 339-23 or same as B-439) were delivered to Australia in spring 1942.

Altogether 509 Brewster planes of various versions were built. 55 of them were model B-239 or F2A-1.

F2A-3, which was ordered in Jan 1941, got a longer nose and its empty weight was 2146kg (463kg more than in F2A-1 and 272kg more than in F2A-2).

Finland bought 44 Model 239:s on Dec 16th 1939. Price per plane was 54000 usd plus packaging and delivery costs. In addition 10 spare engines, 20 propellers and other spare parts were bought so that teh total price was 3,4 million usd.
Brewster factory removed all US Navy property from the planes: carrier equipment, weapons, gun sights and gauges. This stripping came as a surprise to Finns, since they had assumed buying complete airplanes.
Finns had to replace all teh missing equipment from elsewhere.. e.g. gauges which were meant for Fokker XXI:s. The planes were assembled in Sweden in spring 1940.
(!!!! I would not consider this a field modification ;) !!!)

-----

"America's Hundred Thousand" by Francis H. Dean (page 436) mentions almost same manufacturing figures with just minor differences like 20 Aussie Brewsters instead of 16. There is alltogether 33 pages of text, pics, tables and graphs in that boom about F2A (pages 436-469).
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 02:08:42 PM by BlauK »


  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      


Offline BlauK

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5091
      • http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2009, 02:47:42 PM »


  BlauKreuz - Lentolaivue 34      


Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2009, 05:48:20 AM »
The B-239 was virtually identical to the F2A-1 except it had a Wright R-1820-G5 Cyclone engine rated at 905hp.

Actually 950hp with 5 min 1000hp WEP. F2A-1s didn't see combat.
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Wmaker

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5743
      • Lentolaivue 34 website
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2009, 06:58:28 AM »
More great pics of the Revi 3c can be found here:

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/Panelnachbau/Erwin/Me%20109%20E/Me109%20E%20Swiss.htm

...The finnish license-built version most probably didn't have any text/arrow symbols on the knob which controls the brightness of the reticle.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 07:01:09 AM by Wmaker »
Wmaker
Lentolaivue 34

Thank you for the Brewster HTC!

Offline Saxman

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9155
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2009, 04:26:01 PM »
The British used Brewsters in Indochina, and as noted the Australians and I THINK New Zealanders did as well. The only combat by American Brewsters were the Marine Corps F2A-3s based at Midway.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.

Offline FTJR

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 06:38:21 AM »
RAAF 453 squadron was deployed to Singapore in August 1941, as fears of war with Japan increased. The squadron, along with No. 21 Squadron RAAF, No. 243 Squadron RAF and No. 488 Squadron RNZAF, flew Brewster Buffalo fighters, but the Buffalos supplied to these squadrons proved to be poor in quality. Following the Japanese invasion of Malaya on 8 December 1941, 453 Squadron was deployed to airfields at Ipoh and Kuala Lumpur. The squadron strove to support the ground troops by providing air cover and attacking Japanese troops and transport, but suffered high losses in doing so. The squadron withdrew to Singapore on 24 December with only three working aircraft. In Singapore, 453 Squadron merged with 21 Squadron. The squadron fought on until 5 February with just six operational Buffaloes. In spite of many mechanical problems the Buffalo squadrons claimed a 2:1 kill ratio against the Japanese. When 453 Squadron arrived in Java it could not again be made operational. It was ordered back to Australia, and was disbanded at Adelaide on 15 March 1942.
Bring the Beaufighter to Aces High
Raw Prawns      

B.O.S.S. "Beaufighter Operator Support Services" 
Storms and Aeroplanes dont mix

Offline FTJR

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2009, 09:50:15 PM »
I only saw that in a novel so far, but pretty sure they were in Singapore.
Anyway, Brewsters in Hong Kong too?

I dont know about Hong Kong, sorry.

Just picked up the book I bought the other day, but hadn't started reading. 51 Hurricanes sent to Singapore in Crates.  Apparently they flew, but as the book is an overall view, it doesn't mention specifics.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 09:58:15 PM by FTJR »
Bring the Beaufighter to Aces High
Raw Prawns      

B.O.S.S. "Beaufighter Operator Support Services" 
Storms and Aeroplanes dont mix

Offline FTJR

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1996
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 02:36:24 AM »
Bring the Beaufighter to Aces High
Raw Prawns      

B.O.S.S. "Beaufighter Operator Support Services" 
Storms and Aeroplanes dont mix

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2009, 08:01:56 PM »
Ahh!
"Jan 1942 - Reinforcements arrive in the Far East to supplement the defensive air forces; 51 Hurricanes arrive in Singapore, 48 Hurricanes in Sumatra and 30 Hurricanes and Blenheims arrived in Burma from the Middle East."
I remember they flew to Palembang when Singapor fell.
"26 Jan-30 Mar 1942 - The Japanese advance through the Far East. By the end of January, the RAF and other British and allied forces had withdrawn from Malaya and Singapore to Sumatra. Two weeks later, the enemy captured Palembang airfield in Sumatra destroying 39 Hurricanes in the process. By 18 February, the Allies had evacuated to Java. RAF aircraft in the area had been reduced to 18 serviceable Hurricane fighters, 12 Hudson, 6 Blenheim and four Vildebeest bombers."
I see no word of the Brewster though. A place to look could be the book "Bloody Shambles" by Christopher Shores. I bet Guppy has it :D
I have found one little thing about the Brewster in a book though - will post today and a picture with it!
(2 books, 2 pics). However, I'd vote for the Finnish Brewster skin as a default ;)


RAF Brewsters were in Burma. All were eventually lost or simply ran out of spare parts defending Rangoon. The 67th Squadron was transferred from Singapore to Mingaladon airfield. Most of the 67th's pilots were New Zealanders.






Brewster Mk.I Pilot's Manual: http://www.warbirdforum.com/buffpilotmanual.pdf

Visit Dan Ford's Annals of the Brewster Buffalo website here: http://www.warbirdforum.com/buff.htm

This is a "must read site" if you want operational info on Buffalos.

Dan, Erik Shilling and I worked together to identify the AVG's specific P-40/H81 type back in 1997.


My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Angus

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10057
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2009, 03:17:24 AM »
Ok.

And
It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline thrila

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3190
      • The Few Squadron
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2009, 05:28:40 PM »
A pretty picture for you brewster lovers.


"Willy's gone and made another,
Something like it's elder brother-
Wing tips rounded, spinner's bigger.
Unbraced tailplane ends it's figure.
One-O-nine F is it's name-
F is for futile, not for fame."

Offline Bronk

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9044
Re: Brewster information thread
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2009, 09:20:13 AM »
Dean's

239 finland
takeoff 950 hp   2200 rpm    at sea lvl              39.5  "hg
military 1000 hp  2200 rpm   at sea lvl
military  800 hp   2200 rpm   at 16,000'
normal    850 hp   2100 rpm   6000 loblo           36.5  "hg
normal    750hp    2100 rpm   15200 loblo          34.0   "hg

Prop 9' in diameter
Empty weight 3744 pounds
2gun 110 gal fuel fighter G.W. 5014.1 lbs
bomber 110 gal fuel        G.W. 5276.0
2gun 160 gal                  G.W.  5314.1
4gun 110gal                    G.W.  5276.1
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 09:46:00 AM by Bronk »
See Rule #4