Author Topic: Toolsheders  (Read 1858 times)

Offline Traveler

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 02:35:00 PM »
It appear to me that “toolsheaders” is used mostly as a derogatory term by furballer types to describe anyone that is not a dedicated  furballer.

For the most part I believe they have the definition wrong or at least partly wrong.   I’ve flown in well planned mission that contained bombers and escort fighters that fought their way into a target, destroyed the enemy’s ability to make war and captured the base all while being opposed by enemy Air, Sea and Ground forces.  The furballers tend to lump everything into “Toolsheading” if it’s not a light fighter with 50% you’re a toolsheader.   God forbid you might want to capture a base or horror of horrors win a reset.

I'm a long time player of AW and AH and I've seen the shift in game play strategy, one thing is for sure, it's always changing.  It does change from base taking to furballing and back.  One change I have noticed, which I believe is more a reflection of our society, is the proliferation of side switching.  Loyalty to nothing, it’s only a game, right?  I think back to the day when any one side was totally out numbered and people couldn’t switch sides to balance it out.  I seemed to have enjoyed the game play more back then. The sense of team work.  Even when we lost it was still fun.  It always seemed like we had the lowest numbers and got rolled at very base, but it was fun.

Today it’s all about the "me" player.  Play when I want, where I want and with who I want or I’m out of here.  

I find nothing interesting with the endless furballing just outside of a base in the LWA.  

It’s interesting that for the furballers, there is a dedicated arena.  Anyone going into that arena knows what to expect.  I have yet to see a toolsheader in that arena taking down FH’s or hitting strat targets of any kind.  So why is it that every furballer in AH is not in that arena 100% of the time, if it’s all about the fight and the fight is pure air combat, well?  
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 10:11:08 PM »
 I have yet to see a toolsheader in that arena taking down FH’s or hitting strat targets of any kind.  So why is it that every furballer in AH is not in that arena 100% of the time, if it’s all about the fight and the fight is pure air combat, well?  

Because bombers are restricted to one area of the map.  When they were available at all bases in the DA, you'd often enter and find all bases belonging to one side.

As someone said, furballers don't need the limp wristed toolshedders but the toolshedders definitely need the furballers.


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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 01:29:09 AM »
Toolshedding is the willful and wanton destruction of inanimate objects. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself. It's not my cup of tea personally, but different strokes for different folks..yadda yada..

The problem arises when people decide to pretty much exclusively toolshed, which could be done offline by the way, with no intrinsic difference. Then, in the act of toolshedding, intentionally or incidentally, they catastrophically interfere with the fun for the people who were hitherto enjoying fighting other living creatures that actually fight back. Even more detrimental to the public perception of the toolshedder is when the toolshedding itself becomes merely a means to an end, a griefing tool, whereby the end goal is to intentionally piss as many people off, who enjoy actually fighting other living creatures, as humanly possible.

I don't entirely blame the toolshedders, I also blame HTC. HTC needs to provide the would be toolshedding griefer with a wider variety and more interesting targets than the show-stopping Fighter Hangers at a given field. That would go a long way to heal the chasm between the two, often diametrically opposed, facets of playerdom.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 02:01:03 AM by Zazen13 »
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Offline BnZs

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 02:23:55 AM »
The chief frustration with toolshedding is not the concept in and of itself, but the fact that toolshedding, especially in buffs, is simply the single biggest factor in moving the map right now, far more important than who is winning the struggle for either air or ground superiority.

There are a hundred strategies you could use to take a base, but basically the way the game is setup, two missions get used, and those are perhaps the two most boring and unsatisfying. NOE smash and grab or high buff toolshedding.
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Offline soupcan

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 10:55:21 PM »
but the toolshedders definitely need the furballers.
ack-ack

Care to back this statement up with some actual reasons why "toolsheders" need "furballers" ?
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2009, 10:39:30 AM »

As someone said, furballers don't need the limp wristed toolshedders but the toolshedders definitely need the furballers.


ack-ack

Why do you find it necessary in a discussion to use debasing personalization’s, like “limp wristed”?  Can't you discuss a subject on it's merit?
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Offline hammer

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2009, 12:39:13 PM »
Care to back this statement up with some actual reasons why "toolsheders" need "furballers" ?

Because most "toolsheders" can't overcome even minimal resistance? You constantly see the base capture crowd lamenting how they can't do something because too many people are furballing (i.e. they need the furballers to accomplish their mission).

You never see a good furball going with people saying "if only some buffs would come over and kill their fighter hangar, our furball would be successful".

Don't get me wrong. If killing buildings is your thing, go have fun. Just don't do it where there's a good fight going on.

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Hammer
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 12:41:17 PM by hammer »
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Offline Murdr

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2009, 12:57:40 PM »
Many many times, I've seen the attitude by the "war winning" minded player, that the "furballers" are a resource that they are entitled to tap.  They follow up on that concept by toolsheding specifically to kill the furball, and to free up their team mates to play the way they want.  There is not a parallel situation in the reverse.  So I can understand the little jabs being thrown in the conversation.

Offline soupcan

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2009, 01:02:30 PM »

 If killing buildings is your thing, go have fun.
Nah, I prefer fighter vs fighter engagements.

It's the painting of all "toolsheders" with the same brush that I take exception to.
Only noobs get on country channel and blame "furballers" for their inability to capture
a field.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2009, 01:14:02 PM »
Because most "toolsheders" can't overcome even minimal resistance? You constantly see the base capture crowd lamenting how they can't do something because too many people are furballing (i.e. they need the furballers to accomplish their mission).

You never see a good furball going with people saying "if only some buffs would come over and kill their fighter hangar, our furball would be successful".

Don't get me wrong. If killing buildings is your thing, go have fun. Just don't do it where there's a good fight going on.

Regards,

Hammer

I can't understand why any furballer flys in any arena except the DA?  If it's all about the fight and aircombat, why bother with any other arena except the one designed for furballers?  The LWA was designed for people to capture fields, I suggest that the furballers go to the arena designed for them.  If they insist in flying in any other arena, they have to accept the fact that land grabers are going to be doing their thing as well.    

As far as I can see, Knights seem to have the most dedicated group of furballers. I base this conclusion on the number of fields that Knights lose on any given day and what appears to be a Knight's inability to capture a field.  Why they lose so many fields with so many furballers is byond me.  They say it's because you can't defend against a hoard.  What do they think 20 guys furballing is?  
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Offline Zazen13

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2009, 01:25:13 PM »
Many many times, I've seen the attitude by the "war winning" minded player, that the "furballers" are a resource that they are entitled to tap.  They follow up on that concept by toolsheding specifically to kill the furball, and to free up their team mates to play the way they want.  There is not a parallel situation in the reverse.  So I can understand the little jabs being thrown in the conversation.

As a case in point to illustrate the truth of what Murdr says here and what AKAK alluded to earlier. The extremely popular Donut map was removed from the rotation due to the angst created when the "toolshedders" or "win the war types" felt it necessary to destroy the Fighter Town on the map in an effort to coerce those playing there, against their wills, to assist elsewhere with their map reset goal, furballers really didn't want the map reset at all as they loved the map.

What would happen on Donut, and why "toolshedders" often rely on "furballers" on other maps, is one team would commit less of its furballers to FT (usually Bish). This left a far greater proportion of "furballers" elsewhere on the map which could not be effectively countered by the other two teams because all of their furballers were at FT. So, the toolshedders from the other two teams, frustrated by their lack of headway toward winning the war, set about destroying the FT for the "good of their teams" in an effort to leave their furballers no choice but to fight where they wanted them to and hopefully "win the war" and reset the map.

So, I suppose if all teams were comprised of ONLY toolshedders, furballers would not be necessary as no one would actually be fighting each other per se, they would just be pounding pixels with NOE smash & grabs or 30k Buffs. But, as there are those who enjoy fighting each other on other teams, each team requires those "furballer" types in most situations to counter one another and maintain local air superiority long enough to effect base captures and eventually reset the map.

It is because of this I always laugh to myself when I hear some lil' Napoleon spewing venom because all of the "furballers" left the base he wanted prior to capture consummation. But, almost invariably the reason they left is due to the fact he dropped the Fighter Hangers and there was no one for the "furballers" to furball, so they left for greener pastures elsewhere. Now, because he has no fighters there and the FHs are coming back up, the remaining toolshedders get whalloped by the defenders and fail to effect the base capture. In all honesty it is the "furballers" that really don't need the "toolshedders" not the other way around.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2009, 01:39:45 PM by Zazen13 »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2009, 01:47:24 PM »
I can't understand why any furballer flys in any arena except the DA?  If it's all about the fight and aircombat, why bother with any other arena except the one designed for furballers?  The LWA was designed for people to capture fields, I suggest that the furballers go to the arena designed for them.  If they insist in flying in any other arena, they have to accept the fact that land grabers are going to be doing their thing as well.    

As far as I can see, Knights seem to have the most dedicated group of furballers. I base this conclusion on the number of fields that Knights lose on any given day and what appears to be a Knight's inability to capture a field.  Why they lose so many fields with so many furballers is byond me.  They say it's because you can't defend against a hoard.  What do they think 20 guys furballing is?  

The bolded statement above is the biggest load of crap that MOST toolsheders believe in this game. The arenas.....and yes thats ALL OF THEM were made to generate fights! PERIOD ! It doesn't matter if the fight is 1 vs 1 in the air, on the ground, or 20 vs 20 trying to grab a base, its all there to generate fights !

 The only problem furballers have with toolsheders is the toolsheder feels they MUST destroy the furball, whether they see it as a chance to grab a base, or to force the furballers to help them grab more bases.

The only problem toolsheders have with furballers is that they see all those resources wasted, how can that be fun when nothing gets accomplished !

This game was not designed for furballers alone, nor was it made "to win the war", its all here to serve as a means to an end.... to get everyone to fight !

Offline hammer

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2009, 01:54:44 PM »
I can't understand why any furballer flys in any arena except the DA?  If it's all about the fight and aircombat, why bother with any other arena except the one designed for furballers?  

The DA was not designed for furballing. It was designed as a place to have duels. The little furball lake in the DA sprung up to give those who couldn't respect the rules of the arena someplace to have their fun without interfering with those using the DA for its intended purpose. Prior to furball lake's existance, those guys would jump into any duel they could find whether they were invited or not. It has neither the variety or complexity of MA fights.

Quote from: Traveler
The LWA was designed for people to capture fields...

Not quite right, either. Base capture, just like everything else in the game, was designed as a way to generate combat between the sides.

Quote from: Traveler
 If they insist in flying in any other arena, they have to accept the fact that land grabers are going to be doing their thing as well.  

Like I said, if that's your thing, go have fun. The only thing I don't like is when the land grab crowd come to the good furball and take out the hangars so the furballers will come help them. It happens every time a good fight gets going.

Quote from: Traveler
What do they think 20 guys furballing is?  

A lot of fun? Why it is seen as detrimental to land grabbing is what this discussion is all about. On most maps, there are a half dozen or more fields on any given front. Most have no activity going on. Yet if a furball develops between 2 of them, someone will undoubtedly come in, drop the fighter hangars at one of them, and scream for the capture. The guys enjoying the fight keep pushing until they realize they are running out of opponents, at which point most will move on. The base capture crowd slap themselves on the back at what a great thing they did when, in reality, they could have done it at a number of other bases without raining on anybody else's parade.

Regards,

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Offline Murdr

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2009, 01:56:36 PM »
Well, this is what the big guy has said...

Quote
Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.


This is a false assumption.


The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.



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Offline Traveler

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Re: Toolsheders
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2009, 02:28:47 PM »
The question still stands, Why do Furballers fly in anything but the DA at furball lake?
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