Please reconsider the Ta152 ENY

[BnZs]

  At short range, the 51 is easily more user friendly than the 47 and 152.  Screw up a shot in the 152 and you're done.  A slow knife fight in the N is no easy feat for an average player. 

I disagree strongly with this point. All P-47s, even the N, will turn slightly better than the P-51D with flaps, roll better, and are more stable "riding the edge". A turning fight is good territory for a Jug against either a P-51 or Typhoon.

The 152 is less stable, but has a considerable sustained turn-rate advantage over either plane.

[Spikes]

On the 51D's subject...I took it up for the first time in probably a year or two. I got 14 kills easy, no rearms, no vulches. It seemed like Easy mode to me...

[moot]

BNZ - I don't think those, considered in the full picture of the N's envelope, add up to a more user friendly plane than the 51D and 152.  The average player doesn't manage E like the jugs need for their better edge-riding performance to pay off compared to the 51D.  It's a marginal advantage in practice, IMO.  e.g. ... The N's performance compared to the D, at MIL.  The N is a sitting duck in no time.

[bj229r]

Biggest failing of a run-of-the-mill P fittyone pilot flying an N is the mind-numbing 900 feet-per-minute climb rate with a 40 min gas load and full load of ord (that's at 75% gas....take 50% internal and use nearly half your fuel reaching safe alt) Obviously grabs better sans ord, but most havent the patience to deal with it.....due to the IWANTITNOWNOTLATER contingent who populate the P51/Spit16-type planeset

[BnZs]

Biggest failing of a run-of-the-mill P fittyone pilot flying an N is the mind-numbing 900 feet-per-minute climb rate with a 40 min gas load and full load of ord (that's at 75% gas....take 50% internal and use nearly half your fuel reaching safe alt) Obviously grabs better sans ord, but most havent the patience to deal with it.....due to the IWANTITNOWNOTLATER contingent who populate the P51/Spit16-type planeset

Everything is fairly depressing if you're mud-moving Bj. 

[Stoney]

The N is definitely not as user friendly as the 51...I don't think the extra ammo is considerable as a user-friendly feature, unless said user manages to dump the ammo on targets early on in the flight...

These are arguably, the two biggest characteristics to note.  Yes, the P-47N has superior firepower over the Pony.  Yes, the P-47N is more durable.  Yes, the P-47N is practically as fast on the deck.  Yes, the P-47N can outturn a P-51D.  All of these characteristics should carry a caveat that, for the average MA pilot, the P-47N is a more difficult aircraft to fly.  Firepower is only good if the bad guy is in front of you.  Durability with a bad guy 400 out on your six doesn't count for much.  The Jug doesn't have enough speed to purely outrun a Pony.  The turning difference is fairly inconsequential for the average pilot.

Moot in a Ta-152 makes the Ta-152 a 5 ENY plane.  Wolfala in a P-47N makes the Jug a 5 ENY plane.  SkatSr in a P-51D makes the Pony a 5 ENY plane.  You get the point.  Joe Average in either a Ta-152 or P-47N makes those aircraft just average.  Joe Average in a P-51D keeps the Pony an 8 ENY plane.

The last point I'll make is that Lusche's stats, while I believe ultimately are very valuable for comparisons, sort of pull up short for this one, since the Ta-152 is rarely used for air-to-ground, while the P-51D probably carries 30-40% air-to-ground sorties, and the Jug N easily carries over half air-to-ground sorties.  If there was a way to isolate the air-to-air only use of each, I think the comparisons would be very illuminating.

[Lusche]

The last point I'll make is that Lusche's stats, while I believe ultimately are very valuable for comparisons, sort of pull up short for this one, since the Ta-152 is rarely used for air-to-ground, while the P-51D probably carries 30-40% air-to-ground sorties, and the Jug N easily carries over half air-to-ground sorties.  If there was a way to isolate the air-to-air only use of each, I think the comparisons would be very illuminating.

It could be done (or better: "improved") to a certain degree. You could remove all kills of & deaths by ack & GVs from those numbers. Unfortunately this still doesn't take into account bomb loaden P-51s killed by fighters while trying to suicide-pork ords at a base.

But then, the ability to carry ords and to be able to move mud is a part of the ENY, and rightfully so.

[Stoney]

It could be done (or better: "improved") to a certain degree. You could remove all kills of & deaths by ack & GVs from those numbers. Unfortunately this still doesn't take into account bomb loaden P-51s killed by fighters while trying to suicide-pork ords at a base.

But then, the ability to carry ords and to be able to move mud is a part of the ENY, and rightfully so.

Wouldn't that be reflected by the OBJ rating, and not the ENY?

[Lusche]

Wouldn't that be reflected by the OBJ rating, and not the ENY?

Partly yes, but ENY does also determine the perks you get from bombing GVs. And unlike OBJ, ENY isn't just a perk gain factor, it's also a balancer - an ENY limiter kicks in when a side is getting too strong number wise.
The 110G2 didn't get it's ENY of 10 for being such a superb dogfighter

[BnZs]

But then, the ability to carry ords and to be able to move mud is a part of the ENY, and rightfully so.

\

 

But Lusche....it doesn't FEEL like I ought to get the same amount of perks for killing an La7 in a dogfight with a P-47N as one gets for killing a P-47N with an La7...

Bombs...bah, if they were removed from the game tomorrow, it would probably take me 3 weeks to notice.

[Lusche]

But Lusche....it doesn't FEEL like I ought to get the same amount of perks for killing an La7 in a dogfight with a P-47N as one gets for killing a P-47N with an La7...

I'm not saying I'm feeling like the P-47N's ENY is being "correct"

But as I already said above, we have to take into account that ENY is also a  kind of gameplay regulator (ENY limiter), and combat in MA isn't all about noble aerial duels alone
If tt were, we would have immediatly start a campaign for getting the 110G ENY to 30

[BnZs]

Took the 152 up for awhile in the FurBlah lake for awhile.

I've got to say, I still feel like the way it retains E under Gs during maneuvering and competitive turn rate makes it superior as a fighter to the P-51D.

[BnZs]

and combat in MA isn't all about noble aerial duels alone

I'm trying to retain the illusion that AHII still *is* about aerial combat.

[Stoney]

we have to take into account that ENY is also a  kind of gameplay regulator (ENY limiter)...

So what you're saying is that the 5 ENY on the Jug is because everyone picks it to bomb-truck with, and not because it has some special, 5 ENY, air-to-air magic?  Seems like anyone who flies the Jug N for air-to-air is getting penalized.  If this is true, it makes me scratch my head when I see a 35 ENY (or whatever it is) on the FW-190A8, for example.

[moot]

the way it retains E under Gs during maneuvering and competitive turn rate makes it superior as a fighter to the P-51D.

It's not a user friendly package. The 51 is more agile at speed (no compression to speak of compared to the 152), and it beats the 152 easily with 1 notch of flap in a knife fight.  Average players flying the 152?  They snap roll it all over the place. No way out of the tail spin for them. 10/15 seconds of inconsistent (and for the 30, unpredictable) bullet stream is no godsend.
The 51 is like a honda VFR.. simple and docile.. The 152's quirks only make sense when you're further up the learning curve.