Stormbird musings.

[Rich46yo]

Comments on the IL-2 update now that its been fleshed out for some months.

My take is its really changed the game, but in a good way. And its brought balance back into the GV wars. Its "effective" but not "dominant" and just has to be planned for. With effective flak and air cover, and comms, it can be dealt with. But taking a base, after hitting ords and VHs, isnt a gimmee anymore. And spawn campers beware.

Most dont know the airplane has high speed flaps and is the best plane in the game to force over-shoots in. Then again many dont know how to fight it while in a small and nimble fighter, which btw "should" make short work of one.

This is a "great" airplane. And even tho its doubled its kills since the update I believe the Stormbird isn't used enough. 

[trotter]

It's an interesting change. I can't remember another time when a simple armament update changed so dramatically an entire aspect of gameplay. I'm still undecided about it, would be nice if we had the perked ord system and that tank busting package could use bomber perks.

[Anaxogoras]

Most dont know the airplane has high speed flaps and is the best plane in the game to force over-shoots in.

Only because of the incredibly gamey neg-g moves Il-2 pilots are in the habit of doing.

[Lusche]

I don't think it has brought the "balance back" to GV wars. The previous balance was somewhat changed with the introduction of the Wirbelwind, but the new Il-2 isn't better at killing wirbels than the old one, or any other plane at all. It did change the survivability of all other tanks in AH2. It has made killing tanks easy like cutting butter with a hot knife. And it has considerably reduced diversity, both in planes being used for anti armor work as well as tactics empoyed by the GV guys during battles.

I'm not a great friend of perking at all, but if a perked ords system ever comes (which I do wish for), the 37mm gun option would be the first I would like to see perked.

[Anaxogoras]

I'm not a great friend of perking at all, but if a perked ords system ever comes (which I do wish for), the 37mm gun option would be the first I would like to see perked.

Easy fix: split the aircraft into two planes, one with 37mm and one with 23mm.

I'm not going to let you guys forget that I was excoriated when I first said the new Il-2 was perk-worthy.  These days it's said as if it were common sense.

[Rich46yo]

Excoriated? I dont remember anyone wanting it to be perked at all. Tho that seems to come up whenever some cry baby gets shot down by something. Immediately they want to perk it. Or they whine about gamey this or that.

I have something "gamey" for you. Ride your favorite tank out to a cartoon spawn and sit there and wait for the little cartoon tanks to pop into view and then gun the poor schmucks down. Theres "tank wars" for ya and pretty much what we had before we had an effective airplane, with an effective gun, in the game. Many times Ive seen a guy pull a suicide into a bases ords and then settle down for a prolonged camp, eventually towering out with 24 GV kills as if they accomplished something. No strategy, no teamwork, and not much skill. Just gamey.

Now you actually have to use squad tactics and teamwork to survive against IL-2s. By the same token IL-2s have to use teamwork to take out flak. Either with other IL-2s or with their own armor.

Before the update I didn't GV much or mess with GVs much. Between the spawn camping and the retards dropping 1,000lb bombs from dive bombing Lancs I thought the entire scene was a bad joke. "Gamey" didn't begin to describe it.

The K/Ds since the update hasn't changed much at all. In fact its probably gone down, as in more "deaths". So the IL-2 isn't really more dominant. Its just more involved. So far this LW tour the IL-2 has 15554 kills to its 14325 deaths posting a K/D of 1.09. Last August, the last full tour "103" before the update, in LW it had 8411 kills to 7483 deaths posting a K/D of 1.12 . The statistics simply dont back a perk penalty. So far this month the Tiger has a K/D of 3.70 compared to a 3.48 before the 37mm's. The Sherman a 2.45 compared to a tour 103 2.25. Even the Panzer is posting a tour 106 of 0.80 compared to a pre-37mm K/D of 0.82. So close it could be considered a statistical anomaly. And its the Panzer lV thats really taking a beating from the 37mm's.

The reality of the IL-2 update simply does not support a perk price.

[CAVPFCDD]

i shot two down the other day with the HVAP ammo in my t-34/75 

[Anaxogoras]

[Bronk]

I don't think it has brought the "balance back" to GV wars. The previous balance was somewhat changed with the introduction of the Wirbelwind, but the new Il-2 isn't better at killing wirbels than the old one, or any other plane at all. It did change the survivability of all other tanks in AH2. It has made killing tanks easy like cutting butter with a hot knife. And it has considerably reduced diversity, both in planes being used for anti armor work as well as tactics empoyed by the GV guys during battles.

I'm not a great friend of perking at all, but if a perked ords system ever comes (which I do wish for), the 37mm gun option would be the first I would like to see perked.

Going to perk the WW with it?

[Lusche]

Going to perk the WW with it?

No.
Lower ENY, yes.

[Spikes]

I don't think it has brought the "balance back" to GV wars. The previous balance was somewhat changed with the introduction of the Wirbelwind, but the new Il-2 isn't better at killing wirbels than the old one, or any other plane at all. It did change the survivability of all other tanks in AH2. It has made killing tanks easy like cutting butter with a hot knife. And it has considerably reduced diversity, both in planes being used for anti armor work as well as tactics empoyed by the GV guys during battles.

I'm not a great friend of perking at all, but if a perked ords system ever comes (which I do wish for), the 37mm gun option would be the first I would like to see perked.

Indeed. this argument goes both ways in my opinion. I remember when the 25 first came out everyone was screaming to perk the 75mm. After they figured out they could up a Flak and shoot the big blob in the air, the whines stopped. The IL2 is powerful now, and I've seen plenty of guys ditch at the first sight of one. If you're in a tank, you're dead meat.

[Rich46yo]

Yeah if your in a tank with no air cover and no flak, heading into an enemy base, your pretty much dead meat.

Of course the actual war was rife with accounts of lone tanks, or small groups, making it into enemy air bases, porking with ease, and otherwise being nuisances. Free from danger as long as the base had been stripped of ords first.

Tanks in the war lived in fear of air power. Most of all on the eastern front and its just silly to think they should be able to move in the game out of any danger as long as ords are porked and a VH is bombed. That was not "balance". That was "unbalance", tho it was perfect for the camp/score crowd. Now theres a new Sheriff in town with a really big pair of guns and no tank is safe unless they operate in something close to historical operations.

I just came from a combined arms shoot out. It was touch and go, enemy tanks operating with skilled air cover and flak gave me quite a problem. We saved the base but both the Stormbirds and tanks took a beating together. Just like what happened in the war. Both Bish and Rook used team tactics but they fell about 3 troops to short. It was a heckuva fight. The way it was meant to be.

[TIMMY]

rich i agree with you

also on another note
IMHO allot of il2 pilots and tankers are misinformed or too ignorant to the strengths and weaknesses of each
 for example the il2 has big guns but not huge guns
i hardly ever see il2 attacking with good angles
many a time an il2's have wasted all is ammo on ricochets on the sloped amour of the t34 etc
and not high attack angles to target the engine decks, turret lids, cupolas etc which what you need because they can only penetrate a certain amount

and on the other hand the weakness of the il2
its speed and agility or lack thereof it is suprisingly easy to bust and il2 with gv main gun @ D800 where the il2's cannons are throwing fruit at you rather than high velocity AP rounds
i have read many cases of this happening to the il2.
 it suprised the germans aswell how well they could drop them when flown incorrectly

which is one of the main reasons i prefer the Hurri D
sure it has less ammo and vunerable to flak  but it penetrates better and is far more agile to get those ideal converged hits on soft spot with and impact angle of 90 degrees or to evade an IB BnZer
there is nothing better than getting a converged hit on the drivers hatch on a tiger real tricky but satisfying

ill probally get flamed for this but its just my opinion

/.salute

[Delirium]

Only because of the incredibly gamey neg-g moves Il-2 pilots are in the habit of doing.

So the 109 pilots that did a neg g pushover against the Spits/Hurris in the BoB, were gaming the game too?

Now, if you had stated it was gamey because they can time it perfectly as so many of them are flying in F3 mode, I would agree with you.

There is nothing wrong with neg G push overs in some cases.

[Delirium]

Yeah if your in a tank with no air cover and no flak, heading into an enemy base, your pretty much dead meat.

Of course the actual war was rife with accounts of lone tanks, or small groups, making it into enemy air bases, porking with ease, and otherwise being nuisances. Free from danger as long as the base had been stripped of ords first.

Tanks in the war lived in fear of air power. Most of all on the eastern front and its just silly to think they should be able to move in the game out of any danger as long as ords are porked and a VH is bombed. That was not "balance". That was "unbalance", tho it was perfect for the camp/score crowd. Now theres a new Sheriff in town with a really big pair of guns and no tank is safe unless they operate in something close to historical operations.

Bingo... tanks shouldn't be able to operate independently without aircover against late war rides, and in particular dedicated tank killing aircraft like the Il2.

I can understand the tank driver's frustrations when they get into a huge scrap with other tankers, only to get plucked by an il2 in the area but reality bites.