He219 / Me410

[BigPlay]

Most people who request it think it did 420mph.  The He219 was manhandled by Mosquito night-fighters.

Really where can this info be found.

[33Vortex]

Well, either way the He219 was the best LW night fighter and it was quite successful at shooting down British night bombers regardless of how it performed against the mossie.

[AWwrgwy]

Wings of the Luftwaffe by Capt. Eric Brown CBE,DSC,AFC,RN.

HE 219A-7/R2

Performance (factory figures):

Max Speed, 289mph at sea level
                298mph at 6,560ft (2000m)
                332mph at 13,125ft (4000m)
                363mph at 19,685ft (6000m)
               
climb rate at sea level, 1,968ft/min
                  6,560 ft, 1,693ft/min
                  13,125ft, 1,417ft/min

"In my view, the Heinkel fighter -- certainly in its He 219A-2 version -- was decidedly underpowered.  An engine failure on take-off must have been a very nasty emergency to handle at night...."

                 


wrongway

[Scherf]

In 10 days 3 prototypes shot down 20 British bombers and 6 Mossies.

One of the all-time great baseless yet somehow enduring myths.

[BigPlay]

One of the all-time great baseless yet somehow enduring myths.

So why do you think that these claims on the 20 lancs are false? I read the pilots story that shot down 5 Lancs in one sortie. Werner was a highly decorated pilot. If you know anything about Luftwaffe victory claims then you would know that not only his radar operator's word but plane wreckage and gun camera footage (if applicable) would also be used to verify the claim.

[moot]

Wings of the Luftwaffe by Capt. Eric Brown CBE,DSC,AFC,RN.

HE 219A-7/R2

Performance (factory figures):

Max Speed, 289mph at sea level
                298mph at 6,560ft (2000m)
                332mph at 13,125ft (4000m)
                363mph at 19,685ft (6000m)
               
climb rate at sea level, 1,968ft/min
                  6,560 ft, 1,693ft/min
                  13,125ft, 1,417ft/min
                 


wrongway

Wow, that's dead slow...

[Scherf]

So why do you think that these claims on the 20 lancs are false? I read the pilots story that shot down 5 Lancs in one sortie. Werner was a highly decorated pilot. If you know anything about Luftwaffe victory claims then you would know that not only his radar operator's word but plane wreckage and gun camera footage (if applicable) would also be used to verify the claim.

And if you knew anything about Luftwaffe claims, you'd know that no claims for the "six Mosquitos" even exist, other than in the minds of some fantasist author somewhere back in the past, and the infinite stream of drone fanbois who parrot him.

[sunfan1121]

it would be intresting to see what HTC would do with the remote rear guns on the 410.

[Krusty]

Only one prototype was planned with the twin-gun rear "barbette" but I don't think any were produced (can't recall, but think it was "planned" but not "built").

Overall the 219 has little to no place in AH. The 410, on the other hand, would have quite a following, methinks. I know I'd fly it! Bomber hunter, better JABO than the 110G we have now (new mission monster, no doubt!), and the more exotic weapons packages could use the "perked weapons options" feature HTC is trying to implement.


P.S. No matter what the actual performance of the 219 really was, it was one of the fastest night fighters the LW had. I can see how they'd welcome it for firepower and for performance, even if it didn't live up to "promised specs".

[Xasthur]

190A-8 with the additional armor plates was specifically made to take .50s and keep flying.

I don't have to tell you the impact on performance this additional weight had, but at least the pilot had considerably better chance to survive a close encounter with a formation of buffs.

Most pilots removed the armoured glass due to the glass' tendency to trap air between it and the canopy causing a fog that iced up and effectively removed all peripheral vision, according to the Osprey book on the Sturmgruppen.

Photos of later aircraft show fewer and fewer Sturmbocken (? correct pluralisation in German?) carrying the armoured glass and even a few that had ditched or not come with the armour plates on the sides of the cockpit too.

Obviously the speed and maneuverability trade off that came with the addition of the armour was considered more dangerous.

[Scherf]

One Sturmbock, two Sturmböcke, IIRC.

[Karnak]

Only one prototype was planned with the twin-gun rear "barbette" but I don't think any were produced (can't recall, but think it was "planned" but not "built").

Overall the 219 has little to no place in AH. The 410, on the other hand, would have quite a following, methinks. I know I'd fly it! Bomber hunter, better JABO than the 110G we have now (new mission monster, no doubt!), and the more exotic weapons packages could use the "perked weapons options" feature HTC is trying to implement.


P.S. No matter what the actual performance of the 219 really was, it was one of the fastest night fighters the LW had. I can see how they'd welcome it for firepower and for performance, even if it didn't live up to "promised specs".

I think the He219 would be fun, but it isn't the superplane that many think it is.  The best night-fighter of the war was the Mosquito NF.Mk 30, which was substantially better than any of the German machines that saw significant service.  The only German night-fighter that really threatened the Mosquito bombers was the night-fighter version of the Me262, but very few of those saw service.

[33Vortex]

Most pilots removed the armoured glass due to the glass' tendency to trap air between it and the canopy causing a fog that iced up and effectively removed all peripheral vision, according to the Osprey book on the Sturmgruppen.

Photos of later aircraft show fewer and fewer Sturmbocken (? correct pluralisation in German?) carrying the armoured glass and even a few that had ditched or not come with the armour plates on the sides of the cockpit too.

Obviously the speed and maneuverability trade off that came with the addition of the armour was considered more dangerous.

That's because the A-8s were already being manhandled by the numerous formations of P51s, adding armor didn't help! Even if the priority was to shoot down bombers, Luftwaffe pilots were either shot down by the bombers or by the fighters. Many times they couldn't even get to the bombers before the 51s were all over them. So yeah... the pilots did what they felt was right to increase their chances of survival, as simple as that. Survival first, shooting down the enemy second.

[BigPlay]

And if you knew anything about Luftwaffe claims, you'd know that no claims for the "six Mosquitos" even exist, other than in the minds of some fantasist author somewhere back in the past, and the infinite stream of drone fanbois who parrot him.

Well I do not have access to original Luftwaffe claim documents as I doubt you do so finding out if 6 Mossie's were shot down is really not an option for either of us now is it. I was referring to the 5 Lancs that Werner shot down in one mission or do you think that is a bogus claim as well?

[Scherf]

Which is it now? The 5 Lancs, or the 20 bombers, or the 6 Mossies?

I don't know sh*t about Lancs - the 6 Mossies story is bogus.