Tuned vox & mega squads

[Chilli]

Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other.  And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.

HiTech

I respectfully disagree that allowing an adequate number of players to produce a base capture in one squad is a bad thing.  The game play was changed with the tweaks in ack ack and towns that occured way back.  Before my relatively small and respected squad would skillfully take bases with 5 or 6 members.  

I am extremely upset!  The old CO would not allow expanding a wing and as a result in just one year we have vanished into obscurity from a very close nit 25+ players down to maybe 4.  

The change in group dynamics is a direct result of the amount of frustration over the fruitless effort to achieve anything resembling a war.  Without NOE, HORDE, or MEGA VOX coordination, nothing towards land grab is achieved.  Forget about game play, and use MA as a Furball arena.  

If you actually play this game, you will have to agree.  If you don't you are deceiving yourself and not me.

[moot]

So get multiple 32-player squads to work together for those captures. Aside the fact that you don't need more than 3-10 players for a capture, and that 32 is enough for any of the worst Titanic Tuesday swarms of unorganised players you want to take a base from, squad sizes over 32 will hurt the game... It's got little or nothing to do with base captures, unless you yourselves made that your goal. 
My squad mostly doesn't get any kick out of capturing, but just a couple of us who like strat/tactical play (e.g. Larry, Bipolar, Tec, me, maybe a couple more) could easily take a base while the rest of the squad establishes a killzone outside the town.  You certainly don't need 32 players for that!  Not unless there are 32 equaly coordinated players defending.

If 25+ players dissolved into just 4 because you couldn't add even more players than that, then your squad really wasn't tight knit to begin with. 
Change in group dynamics as a result of frustration from "fruitless efforts to achieve a war" is not a squad size problem. 

[Murdr]

The change in group dynamics is a direct result of the amount of frustration over the fruitless effort to achieve anything resembling a war.  Without NOE, HORDE, or MEGA VOX coordination, nothing towards land grab is achieved.  Forget about game play, and use MA as a Furball arena.  

Your personal objectives for game play, and the developers objectives are not one in the same. 

Some play the game to fulfill the actual parameters that it was designed for, which is to overcome and conquer bases, and eventually the country, thus winning the war/game.

This is a false assumption.


The game was designed to have fun at different types of combat. Conquering bases is just a means to promote combat and hence fun. But by no means is it more or less justified than going out and just mixing it up.


HiTech

But I also don't agree that a squad level force (ie. 10-25 players) is inadequate to capture a base.  It sounds like you want to achieve base capture above being bother by or having complications from "combat".  Meaning the capture itself means way more than the experience of working together with friends to achieve something with challenges to overcome.  That is ok, but it's not the only game play that AH is ment to accommodate.

[waystin2]

Moot is 100% correct about why squad limits exist.They exist because group dynamics change when not everyone in one group know each other.  And I will say point blank I believe MEGA squads are bad for the game.

HiTech

I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas.  So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir? 

A second question and completely related:  Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations? 

The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High.  I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless.  Your answer is appreciated. 

<Salute>

Way

PS-Too late, I have to modify.  A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line.   

[E25280]

I respectfully disagree that allowing an adequate number of players to produce a base capture in one squad is a bad thing.

I didn't see anyone say having an "adequate" number to capture a base is a bad thing.  What I see is a lot of people who believe that 32 people to capture a base is overkill, not adequacy.  

And they would be correct IMO.

That being said, I go back to my original post.  My experience has been that mega-squads are not necessarily the ones doing the hording.  If you somehow eliminate the mega-squads, hording behavior will not stop.

I understand the desire to cure the "disease", but the proposed treatment may not be as effective as people think.

[Bronk]

I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas.  So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir?  WHile I'm not HT Id say anything that requires  separate "wings". 

A second question and completely related:  Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations?  Why do you think the MAs were split in the first place?

The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High.  I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless.  Your answer is appreciated. 

<Salute>

Way
It is not a question of smaller numbers. It is about squads gathering lemmings to be used as cannon fodder. Don't take the time to teach the intricacies of the game just hurl yourself at the toolshed in that 110.
PS-Too late, I have to modify.  A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line.   

Suck when the creator of all things AH doesn't share your view point... ehh?

[moot]

I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas.  So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir? 

A second question and completely related:  Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations? 

The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High.  I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless.  Your answer is appreciated. 

<Salute>

Way

PS-Too late, I have to modify.  A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line.   

Guess it would be nice to get my meaning of slums before the professional moot quoters turn this settled argument into another neverending baseless gripe... I said that the MAs were heading in the direction of slums because of overcrowding (and I wasn't nearly the only one to notice). Like a big messy soup with no infrastructure, no compartmentalization. Like a big piece of soaked bread that's lost its composure. If everyone always flew in groups of close friends, say 16 player groups, IMO the arenas could grow a lot larger yet.  But that's not the case, there's tons of players that fly on their own at any given time, and in brief that leads to "slums".  I assume it's ok to use that word since Pyro himself referred to it that way. Like I said in the other thread, there's a sweet spot.  500 isn't it, 10 isn't it either. 50 isn't it either, nor is 40-some.. I think 32 is pretty much it, or maybe a little less, I dunno. You can only improve on something (like arena or squad sizes) so much before there's only negligible improvements left to be made.  I think squad sizes have a similar dynamic to the total arena populations.. It's not so simple, but those two are major factors.

I don't argue for smaller arenas. I personaly don't really care either way.. I have my squad, the rest of the game could almost go to hell and I'd still have a ball playing it... So you see, my agenda is already satisfied. As far as I'm concerned the setup is great as it is. Maybe it could be improved but it's good enough as far as my satisfaction goes. 
I do think it would be worse to have larger squad limits.  Like I told Chili, nothing stops anyone from coordinating multiple groups of 32 together.  The point was and remains that the glue of this game is genuine friendship.  Mega squads devalue this.  Like it or not

[thndregg]

This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.

[Bronk]

This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.

No... the the arena split had nothing to do with it... or the attempt at side caps... or the attemp at fixed line capture system.

Nope... nothing was ever done about it.

[waystin2]

Suck when the creator of all things AH doesn't share your view point... ehh?

Wow Bunk,

In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too?  I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions.  Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh?


PS-Please no insult intended Moot.  Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.

[moot]

Wow Bunk,

In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too?  I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions.  Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh? :aok

pot, kettle..

This, like so many threads on this subject over the past several years has Y E T to actually resolve the issue. It gets resurrected, but nothing is ever done about it. Proof of that is evident enough.

What issue is unresolved here?

[Murdr]

I guess it would be nice to get your definition of a Mega-Squad before the professional Hitech quoters go to town tooting their own horn and pushing their own agendas.  So what do you consider a Mega-Squad Sir? 

A second question and completely related:  Do you also agree with Moot on his assessment of your MA's as "Slums" due to the larger populations? 

The reason I ask is because there is a small (repeat small) vocal minority of players that miss the smaller environment of your earlier incarnations of Aces High.  I just do not see Aces High going back to smaller populations, but they gripe nonetheless.  Your answer is appreciated. 

<Salute>

Way

PS-Too late, I have to modify.  A professional Hitech quoter has already added you to his sig line.   

I am the only one that quoted HiTech in this thread, so I have to reply...

#1  I am a trainer.  It goes with the territory to pass along information on the bbs.  Primarily in Help & Training, but it could be anywhere.

The role of the trainer is to provide aid and assistance to the player who wishes to improve thier flight skills.
...
Trainers cannot alter human behavior.  They only impart information to those who are looking to improve the quality of thier gameplay.

#2  HiTech, Pyro, and Skuzzy comments are often primary sources in regards to AH so in the course of "imparting information" it's often simpler for me to take 20 seconds to pull a quote that I've already read, and repost it rather than type a freaking book explaining what's already been said.

#3  You might actually learn something by paying a little bit of attention to those who have spent years here gaining understanding and building relationships instead of trying to ridicule their efforts to share their experiences.

[Bronk]

Wow Bunk,

In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too?  I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions.  Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh?


PS-Please no insult intended Moot.  Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.

Well waytard (see how I did that) since squad limit is 32, what's not allowed should be self explanatory.

I'm sure being the bright boy that you are surely you could have figured that out by yourself .

Hows that for constructive. :bird

 
Edit: and cupcake I'm tame compared to most...LMAO venom he says.

[waystin2]

I am the only one that quoted HiTech in this thread, so I have to reply...

#1  I am a trainer.  It goes with the territory to pass along information on the bbs.  Primarily in Help & Training, but it could be anywhere.
#2  HiTech, Pyro, and Skuzzy comments are often primary sources in regards to AH so in the course of "imparting information" it's often simpler for me to take 20 seconds to pull a quote and repost it rather than type a freaking book explaining what's already been said.

#3  You might actually learn something by paying a little bit of attention to those who have spent years here gaining understanding and building relationships instead of trying to ridicule their efforts to share their experiences.

Hello Murdr,

I have learned lots from yourself and other veterans posts. Yes Moot too.  Your quote was in discussion, not in a sig line as mentioned.  The person in question was Bronk who added Hitech's quote into his sig line for god knows what reason other than to aggravate.  Please do not assume I have any issue with yourself Sir.  I question whether anyone could gain #3 from anything Bronk posts.  See above post by Bunk for his attempted continuance of a heated discussion.



<Salute>

[moot]

Wow Bunk,

In addition to your ankle humping the big guy you can now answer for him too?  I will wait for Hitech's answer, not some self appointed lackey with a trumped up beef to answer my legitimate questions.  Add constructively to the conversation, or put a cork in your pie-hole...ehh?


PS-Please no insult intended Moot.  Bunk seems to be the only one with any sort of venom to his commentary on what could be a good discussion.

Two wrongs wont make a right Waystin.

See above post by Bunk for his attempted continuance of a heated discussion.

Takes two to tango... Ya know?