Author Topic: Transmission Flush  (Read 1724 times)

Offline Fulmar

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Transmission Flush
« on: February 11, 2009, 09:54:36 PM »
So I'm not a hardcore car guy.  I'll do my easy maintenance on my cars (battery change, head lights, etc).  So my wife and I just moved to a larger city and I haven't really went out looking for a good mechanic yet.  Prior to this, I always took mine and my wife's vehicles to our small town Ford dealer because I knew the guys personally and trusted their word and work.

So today, I just took it to Tires Plus because it was down the street.  In the middle of the oil change they call me and tell me that since my wife's car ('05 Focus ZX4) is at 42,000 miles and that's its past the recommended 30,000 mile transmission flush.  Which of course costs $140.  I keep a pretty good tab on the owner's manual and I don't recall this being anywhere in the maintenance schedule.  Since I didn't have the manual in front of me I told them no.

I get the car back and thumb through the maintenance guide and all I can find outside of checking the tranny fluid levels, is that the fluid needs to be changed at 60K for CVT's.  Well obviously this isn't a CVT.  Even on Tire Plus's own website on their "maintenance schedule" for my wife's car, no where does it say transmission flush (outside of checking the fluids).

A little Googling and I find conflicting stories and recommendations.  Some say yes, some say 100K, some say flushes are bad and their high pressure etc etc and can do more harm than good, and so on.

So, suggestions, help, answers, insights?
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Offline Cougar68

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2009, 10:03:48 PM »
I don't do the tranny flush and haven't heard many good things coming from those that have.  Keep up with the filter changes and make sure the levels are good, you're golden. 

Offline uptown

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2009, 10:07:41 PM »
I'll change mine if the tranny starts slipping or the dip stick smells burnt. I won't even think about it on the family cars until they get close to 100,000 miles or after a roads trip through the mountains or something like that. Pulling a boat or heavy loads, you may need to change it sooner.  My pulling truck I use at the county fairs I usually change every 5th or 6th pull. It really just depends on how you treat you tranny. If you drive hammer down everywhere bangin' gears, yeah you may need to have it changed. Otherwise, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

PS you can do it yourself for 40 bucks. :aok
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Offline Buzzard7

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2009, 10:10:28 PM »
Fluid and filter changes is all you need. Sounds like they were trying the up-sell thing. Flushes aren't good for the system. Check to see if your vehicle uses synthetic fluid for the tranny. If it does you can usually wait till 100,000 before you need a filter and fluid change.

Offline RipChord929

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 10:32:44 PM »
Well, you didn't specify whether the car has a manual trans,
or an automatic..

I've never heard of a manual trans being harmed by a fresh
dose of the correct trans oil.. No matter the mileage..

But an automatic trans is a different story entirely.. Auto
trans fluid, isn't just plain old oil.. It may look it, and feel it,
but it isn't.. It uses an oil base, but has friction modifiers
bonded with the oil at the molecular level.. This is neccesary
for the internal clutch packs for the different gears...
Often their "Flush fluid", which is a solvent, will wash so much
of the friction modifier out of the clutches that the trans will
start slipping in one or all of the gears.. Ooops!!! Then when
ya go back to the shop with the trans slipping.. They say
that "You waited too long for your trans service.." Now ya
need a rebuild... That is more common than you think!!!

Change the fluid and filter, you'll be just fine...

RC

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Offline Chalenge

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2009, 11:25:47 PM »
$140 is too much regardless.
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Offline Masherbrum

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 12:17:00 AM »
Buy the filter and correct Trans fluid.   Filter may be a PITA to get too, but for less than $40, you can EASILY prolong the life of your Trans.
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Offline Fulmar

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 01:02:14 AM »
What should I look for in the fluid to see if it needs to be changed.  Like I said, the owner's manual doesn't have any recommendations for changing other than checking the fluid level.  She's a good driver, no lead foot etc.

And yeah, when I heard $140 I giggled a bit.  Either way, I think they lost a customer.
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Offline nirvana

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 02:26:18 AM »
the newest brand of trans fluid is ATF4 and the colour/smell isn't a reliable way of deciding whether a transmission service is necessary or not, it's all by mileage and feel now.  If it starts slipping change it, without any aggressive driving 100,000 is probably fine.  I never performed a transmission flush, all we ever did was drain the fluid from the pan, change the filter and inspect for any damage and put it back together with some new fluid.  Transmission servicing can be a pain if you have to remove the gasket, the newer dodge trucks just bolt on the filter which is REALLY nice.

Our trans services were $79.99 I believe, but we also did it the old school way.  They have recycling machines now that will suck out the old fluid and replace it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 02:28:00 AM by nirvana »
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Offline uptown

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2009, 02:30:07 AM »
Unless you're having problems with the way it's shifting, I wouldn't mess with it. But if you must, you'll see black sludge or even metal shavings in bad cases, in the bottom of the pan. The fluid will smell burnt. Smelling the dip stick will tell you alot and save you the trouble of pulling the pan.
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Offline nirvana

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2009, 04:50:21 AM »
There's almost always a little sludge and shaving in the pan due to the clutches engaging and disengaging.  I actually can't remember any pan that I didn't need to clean off the magnet and pan.  As Uptown said though, if it's not broke then don't mess with it.  You can always call Ford and see what they recommend for intervals too.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2009, 07:46:18 AM »


PS you can do it yourself for 40 bucks. :aok

no, actually, he can't.

read up on it before you stick your foot in your mouth.  :aok
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2009, 08:00:29 AM »
So I'm not a hardcore car guy.  I'll do my easy maintenance on my cars (battery change, head lights, etc).  So my wife and I just moved to a larger city and I haven't really went out looking for a good mechanic yet.  Prior to this, I always took mine and my wife's vehicles to our small town Ford dealer because I knew the guys personally and trusted their word and work.

So today, I just took it to Tires Plus because it was down the street.  In the middle of the oil change they call me and tell me that since my wife's car ('05 Focus ZX4) is at 42,000 miles and that's its past the recommended 30,000 mile transmission flush.  Which of course costs $140.  I keep a pretty good tab on the owner's manual and I don't recall this being anywhere in the maintenance schedule.  Since I didn't have the manual in front of me I told them no.

I get the car back and thumb through the maintenance guide and all I can find outside of checking the tranny fluid levels, is that the fluid needs to be changed at 60K for CVT's.  Well obviously this isn't a CVT.  Even on Tire Plus's own website on their "maintenance schedule" for my wife's car, no where does it say transmission flush (outside of checking the fluids).

A little Googling and I find conflicting stories and recommendations.  Some say yes, some say 100K, some say flushes are bad and their high pressure etc etc and can do more harm than good, and so on.

So, suggestions, help, answers, insights?

first off, the difference between doing a flush, and doing a fluid and filter change......

to flush your tranny, it gets hooked up to a fluid exchanger. this is generally done by removing one of your trans fluid cooler lines, and connecting the exchanger in-line. start the engine....as the trans. attempts to circulate fluid throughout itself, it now pumps the old fluid into the exchanger, and the exchanger pumps the fresh fluid into the trans.

to change the fluid and filter, you drop the trans pan(carefully, unless you want a trans. fluid shower) remove the filter and replace it with a new one.

the average automatic transmission holds between 10 and 12 quarts of fluid.(including what's in the torque converter) when you flush the fluid, you change ALL of it. when you just do a filter change, you generally only change abut 4 or 5 quarts of it. the rest is still inside the workings of the tranny, and the torque converter.

 if the car's in pretty good shape, i prefer to do the flush, especially if you're somewhat near the correct mileage. fords are still somewhat notorious for transmission problems.
 i flushed the trans on my 95 taurus a few months ago, as the tranny was bucking, and generally acting weird...even after just dropping the pan. the trans worked beautifully.


 i just checked in alldata(my information system.)

they call for changing the tranny fluid at 30k miles, if you're driving in severe driving conditions. they define that as towing, extended idling, or dusty conditions.


from alldata:

T : Towing a trailer or using a camper or car-top-carrier



Every 3,000 miles or 3 months  Change engine oil and filter
 
Every 60,000 miles  Change transfer case fluid
 
 Change rear axle fluid if equipped with XY-75W90-FEHP
 
As required  Change manual transmission fluid
 
As required  Inspect and lubricate U-joints

I : Extensive idling and/or low-speed driving for long distances as in heavy commercial use such as delivery, taxi, patrol car.



Every 3,000 miles or 3 months  Change engine oil and filter
 
 Lube front lower control arm ball joints with zerk fittings, if equipped
 
Every 5,000 miles  Inspect brake system
 
 Check battery electrolyte level (Patrol Cars)
 
Every 15,000 miles  Replace fuel filter
 
Every 30,000 miles  Change automatic transmission fluid 
 
 Lubricate 4x2 wheel bearings, replace grease seals, and adjust bearings
 
Every 60,000 miles  Replace spark plugs
 
 Change transfer case fluid
 
As required  Replace cabin air filter

D : Operating in dusty conditions such as unpaved or dusty roads



Every 3,000 miles or 3 months  Change engine oil and filter
 
Every 15,000 miles  Replace fuel filter
 
Every 30,000 miles  Change automatic transmission fluid
 
Every 60,000 miles  Change transfer case fluid
 
As required  Replace engine air filter
 
As required  Replace cabin air filter

O : Off-road operation



Every 30,000 miles  Change automatic transmission fluid
 
Every 50,000 miles  Change rear axle lubricant (F-450 and F-550 only)
 
Every 60,000 miles  Change transfer case fluid
 
As required  Replace cabin air filter
 
As required  Inspect and lubricate U-joints
 
As required  Inspect and lubricate steering linkage ball joints with zerk fittings
 


30000 MI or 48000 KM
 
 Inspect
      Ball Joint Notes 
 
      Brakes and Traction Control Notes 
            Inspect brake pads, shoes, rotors, drums, brake lines and hoses, and parking brake system for all operating Conditions.
 
      Cooling System Notes 
            Inspect cooling system and hoses.
 
      Exhaust System Notes 
 
      Heat Shield, Exhaust Notes 
 
      Steering and Suspension Notes 
            Inspect steering linkage and suspension.
 
      Vehicle (Multi-Point Inspection) Notes 
            Recommended by Ford
 
      Wheel Bearing Notes 
            Inspect wheel ends for endplay and noise.
 
 
 Lubricate
      Control Arm Notes 
            If using Special Operating Conditions I. Refer to Special Operating Conditions (Read This First). Lube front lower control arm and steering linkage ball joints with zerk fittings, if equipped.
 
 
 Replace
      Cabin Air Filter Notes 
            Replace cabin air filter, if equipped.
 
      Engine Oil Notes 
            Replace engine oil for all Special Operating Conditions.
 
      Fluid - A/T (Operating Conditions T, I, D and O only.) Notes 
            If using Special Operating Conditions T, I, D or O. Refer to Special Operating Conditions (Read This First). Replace automatic transmission fluid on all transmissions.
 
      Fuel Filter Notes 
            Replace fuel filter. All Operating Conditions.
 
      Oil Filter, Engine Notes 
            Replace oil filter under all operating conditions.
 
 
 Rotate
      Tires
 


the bold is the alldata 30k service for this vehicle.

bear in mind, if you have warranty left on this car, you NEED to keep up on all of the scheduled maintenance, or they'll void it.

if ya have any questions, feel free to pm me.

john
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2009, 08:03:30 AM »
What should I look for in the fluid to see if it needs to be changed.  Like I said, the owner's manual doesn't have any recommendations for changing other than checking the fluid level.  She's a good driver, no lead foot etc.

And yeah, when I heard $140 I giggled a bit.  Either way, I think they lost a customer.

pull the dipstick, and look at the color.....if it's darkish red, or brown, then smell it. if it smells burnt, then it;s bad.

i forgot to mention in my other reply....stay away from tires plus, goodyears, etc........


napa care centers are pretty good....they're privatly owned shops, that work through napa, and this allows them to give you better warranty.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: Transmission Flush
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2009, 08:05:05 AM »
the newest brand of trans fluid is ATF4 and the colour/smell isn't a reliable way of deciding whether a transmission service is necessary or not, it's all by mileage and feel now.  If it starts slipping change it, without any aggressive driving 100,000 is probably fine.  I never performed a transmission flush, all we ever did was drain the fluid from the pan, change the filter and inspect for any damage and put it back together with some new fluid.  Transmission servicing can be a pain if you have to remove the gasket, the newer dodge trucks just bolt on the filter which is REALLY nice.

Our trans services were $79.99 I believe, but we also did it the old school way.  They have recycling machines now that will suck out the old fluid and replace it.

ATF+4 is only used in chryslers....to the best of my knowledge.
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