The Good Ol' Days, or Rose-colored Glasses?

[RELIC]

I said it before:

Been playing AH since Jan 2002.  I've seen no significant changes in how folks play the game during that time.  I realize some will disagree and imply the game is going to hell but I see 400 to 600 people playing each night that seem to still be enjoying themselves, or maybe they are all masochists?
Is it possible that part of the problem lies within?  Is there a even a remote chance of some level of burnout... but of course not and how dare I even suggest such a thing!  Yet if in fact it's the "other players" who are ruining the game then I think you'd be well served to ask yourself "can I change the behavior of 400 other individuals?"  Good luck with that.
Some of the complaining in here reminds me of a gal I dated years ago.  She didn't like my car, my clothes, my furniture, my hair, my friends, my apartment...  Finally I "put her out of her misery" and released her back into the wild.  Now I figure she's making some other poor b@st@rd miserable.
Is AH perfect?  Well that is in the eye of the beholder, but she looks damn good to me.  I'm still having a blast and if I ever get to the stage where I'm not having fun I'll pack it in and move on to something else.
I can only imagine how the creators of this game must react inwardly to all the complaints.  It's admirable for them to give everyone a forum to provide feedback, but at what point does it stop being constructive and start becoming destructive?  I give them a lot of credit for their tolerance, especially for the topics that are repeated ad nauseam.  If I had to deal with one more collision model sucks, or HO's suck, or eny sucks, or gameplay sucks, or arena caps suck thread... well my advice would eventually be, "don't go away mad, just go away."

[humble]

Over the weekend Soulyss, ZAP and I were "defending" a base in MWA against a larger incoming group. Now all 3 of us are basically furballers with zero score interest. Initially numbers were roughly 2.5 to one. All 3 of us tend to just cruise on out to the action so we normally dont get to high. As a result we'd end up both -E and -numbers...no problem. Over 20-30 min numbers got even more lopsided and you had a couple of guys specifically intent on picking an already lopsided fight. End result was the 3 or us logged. No other fight to be had and no reason to pursue this one any farther.

Now this isnt the big map, big numbers of the LWA. This is 45 people or so on a smaller map. Anyone who's been flying MWA or flew the old CT before it died will know the fundamental shift in attitude is very very real. Further you get some significant smack talk "go cry in your cheerio's" from guys who wont ever offer up a real one on one.

The simple reality is that the mentality of the people in the game has changed, accordingly so has game play....for the worse.

[The Fugitive]

It is my perception based on the constant discussion I see here on the boards balanced with my own life experience of 40 years.  I am truly sorry, I did not realize that only folks with "X" amount of years allowed to post here. 

The point I was trying to make was you really have nothing to compare it to.

Last years Mustang, and the Mustang of two years ago is pretty much the same car, so no real way to compare anything other than to say its pretty much the same. Now compare either one with the 69 Mustang. While they look similar they are vastly different. See what I'm saying?

To someone who has only played less than two years you don't see much of a change, but when compared with looking back 10 years the changes are easy to see.

[Animl]

There have been many suggestions that made it into the game, the things you typically suggest do not make it in because most of what you suggest would destroy AH, and then no one would be able to play.

I also love how you make completely false statements in your claims.

1. People can fly any where? Really I didn't know people could get into a full arena, or if you mean any where on the map, I didn't know all planes had unlimited range? And when did it change that you can take off from any field with any plane?

2. You can fly any plane in what arena, simple things like disabling planes with side imbalance come to mind? Let alone the 2 other arenas with limited plane sets.

3. I also love how you say there is not tactics and strategy. What do you believe hit them where they ain't is? Do you believe it just happens at random?

4. "People can do anything, fly anything, go anywhere - so, they are free to make up large hordes, avoid fights, abandon entire fronts, and milkrun airfields" These ARE strategies.

5. "The MA system remains as it was in AH1." wrong again , there have been multiple changes to the strat systems in AH.

So your basic claim that nothing has been done to change with the times is utter complete BS or lies which ever you prefer. But if you really wish to set up false straw man arguments go a head and keep playing with yourself.

HiTech

<wipes tears> that was beautiful.

>> IMO<< you need to do that more often.

<runs and hides>

Animl

[Animl]

It will always come down to getting out of the game what you put into it.

I gave up expecting things from other players many years ago.  If I fly assuming the guy pointing at me is going to go for the HO, I'm not surprised if he does, and will avoid setting one up for him.  If I assume I won't get a "fair" 1v1 fight, I fight expecting to get jumped and am not disappointed when it happens.  I try very hard to put myself in situations that when I am actually surprised, it's because the silly stuff didn't happen.

The game itself, whether evolving from a very rough early Air Warrior to the now more evolved Aces High II really hasn't changed much at all if you think about it.  Your still a bunch of people sitting in your homes manipulating a small screen, the graphics have improved as they relate to what they used to be, but remember when AW went 3d?  That was a "stunning" improvement but poor in today's standards.  There are games with far superior graphics, like MS FS X with the quality ramped up to full.  You can't play them with 300 people in a room though, so compromises in quality for playability must occur.  Still, between the two extremes, the basic game is the same.  Take off, fly, die, rinse, repeat.  The only variable is your direct participation and expectations.

The players will always make the difference, and not in the way you would imagine.  There has been and always will be dweebs, noobs, squeakers and the like.  You all were, you just didn't have the experience to know it was you, and don't really want to remember that you acted at one point in your gaming career as a clueless dolt.  You have more experience now, and your perception of the game has changed.  The game hasn't.  The game hasn't changed since games were played with rolling dice.  The basic playability is the same.

If you launch in the main arenas, where there is a designed free for all setup, you simply have to accept the fact that someone will do something you don't agree with.  Get over it.  I see more players complain about things they have no control over, then don't attend the special events where they have complete control.  Nothing new, it's always been that way.  Take this exact same conversation and change the format from Air Warrior on Genie to when they went to AOL.  Darn near verbatim, same thoughts on the good old days compared to now.  Always going downhill, always changing, but more people log in now than ever.  The game hasn't changed, perception of it has, and it is inevitable, as your experiences change.  It is impossible to look at the same thing twice and see it without changes, as your experience has changed.  Knowing that, I go back to the original comment.  You will only get out of the game, regardless of the game, exactly what you put into it.

<golf clap>

I still remember a lot of things we looked past in AW. Which is why I always tried to spruce it up somehow.

HT please put together, or make available a sound chart that shows which actions trigger which sound files for us. I know there are some out there but no one seems willing to cough one up, and skuzzy says he doesn't have any such thing. I'd rather put what small time I have into building a SP then doing the rearch to be able to plot out something accurate,... ya I know I'm anal, but then you already knew that didn't you.

I only have one single personal preference,....SLIGHTLY smaller MAs maps with slightly less bases. And,.. and if I don't get it I'm quitting,...<squints around room to see if anyone is panicking to save me> I mean it, I have my hand on the button right now,...you can't stop me,......I mean it,.... I'm really leaving this time,....you'll all be sorry,...twitches finger....


Animl

[Urchin]

There have been many suggestions that made it into the game, the things you typically suggest do not make it in because most of what you suggest would destroy AH, and then no one would be able to play.

I also love how you make completely false statements in your claims.

1. People can fly any where? Really I didn't know people could get into a full arena, or if you mean any where on the map, I didn't know all planes had unlimited range? And when did it change that you can take off from any field with any plane?

2. You can fly any plane in what arena, simple things like disabling planes with side imbalance come to mind? Let alone the 2 other arenas with limited plane sets.

3. I also love how you say there is not tactics and strategy. What do you believe hit them where they ain't is? Do you believe it just happens at random?

4. "People can do anything, fly anything, go anywhere - so, they are free to make up large hordes, avoid fights, abandon entire fronts, and milkrun airfields" These ARE strategies.

5. "The MA system remains as it was in AH1." wrong again , there have been multiple changes to the strat systems in AH.

So your basic claim that nothing has been done to change with the times is utter complete BS or lies which ever you prefer. But if you really wish to set up false straw man arguments go a head and keep playing with yourself.

HiTech

HT -

I am headed to the gym so I don't have time to pick apart your post the way you picked apart Kweassa's.  Let me just ask you one question, point blank. 

Ok.  Two. 

Do you approve of the gameplay in the MA today? 

Is an arena full of hordes playing musical fields what you envisioned when you sat down to make "The Internets Premier WW2 Combat Experience?"?

[grizz441]

The continuous drone of "no-one fights any more" would die out and be replaced with the clatter of all the crying cause you got shot down! All the spandex wearin superheros would be shot down more often by a better trained cadre of players! Essentially replacing one gripe for another

There would be no gripes.  I think this is a lot of vets 'vision' of the game.  Being able to find skilled fights in the MA consistently due to players taking the time to learn ACM.  Wouldn't that be something?

[Saurdaukar]

HT -

I am headed to the gym so I don't have time to pick apart your post the way you picked apart Kweassa's.  Let me just ask you one question, point blank. 

Ok.  Two. 

Do you approve of the gameplay in the MA today? 

Is an arena full of hordes playing musical fields what you envisioned when you sat down to make "The Internets Premier WW2 Combat Experience?"?

Scary how much we think alike.

D, in all honesty... I'll just throw the question out there.

Do you think that the community, and in tandem with same the quality of the gameplay, has deteriorated from what it was 10 years ago or, by contrast, do you feel as though no substantial change has been realized?

In an effort to avoid misunderstanding, 'gameplay' is exclusive of 'the game.'

Catch-22, I know.  You are concerned that you might be shooting yourself in the foot with your answer, but I think that many of us who grew up playing the games you had a hand in creating would be appreciative of your input.

Thanks.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,260282.msg3230779.html#msg3230779

[Hap]

there have been multiple changes to the strat systems in AH.

Hitech, how have you changed the City > Factories > Fields, strat systems?

[shreck]

There would be no gripes.  I think this is a lot of vets 'vision' of the game.  Being able to find skilled fights in the MA consistently due to players taking the time to learn ACM.  Wouldn't that be something?

Vision of the game ? Why then do I see you guys consistently hovering the edge of a base cherrying all those trying to climb to you ? I thought the "VISION" was a fair engagement with a worthy opponent  In the DA you guys are very different than in the MA, In the DA you leave your fragile egos at the door, while in the MA you wear them like a pimp wears snake skin platforms, avoiding every little puddle or smidge of dirt  If the vets want the "FIGHT" in the MA as they say, then how about offering the fair fight you say you seek, in the MA 

[hitech]

Is an arena full of hordes playing musical fields what you envisioned when you sat down to make "The Internets Premier WW2 Combat Experience?"?

Urchin, when did you stop beating your wife?

If you  wish a question answered, try putting it in the form of a real question, rather than a question loaded with whine.

HiTech

[Kweassa]

There have been many suggestions that made it into the game, the things you typically suggest do not make it in because most of what you suggest would destroy AH, and then no one would be able to play.

I also love how you make completely false statements in your claims.

Gee, I wouldn't have imagined one might need to specify and explain every single bit of inclination and implication embedded within one's own text to make people understand something so obvious, lest they be fed words into their mouths which they've not even spoken, and even worse - being called a liar and BS for making a simple opinion.

So fine, let's play it your way.

1. People can fly any where? Really I didn't know people could get into a full arena, or if you mean any where on the map, I didn't know all planes had unlimited range? And when did it change that you can take off from any field with any plane?

Obviously, people can fly any where they want within the constraints of their current chesspiece of choice - which in this case implies not the actual physical positioning on the map, but rather the situation where people are free to choose at which airfield within access they might take off.

2. You can fly any plane in what arena, simple things like disabling planes with side imbalance come to mind? Let alone the 2 other arenas with limited plane sets.

Obviously, people can fly any plane within the limits of given planeset either specified by the map, or the side-balancer tool.

3. I also love how you say there is not tactics and strategy. What do you believe hit them where they ain't is? Do you believe it just happens at random?

4. "People can do anything, fly anything, go anywhere - so, they are free to make up large hordes, avoid fights, abandon entire fronts, and milkrun airfields" These ARE strategies.

Perhaps you could have given some thought that such particular strategy is what a lot of customers have been complaining about, and thus the 'absence of strategy or tactics' as mentioned earlier on might have obviously meant 'absence of strategy or tactics besides the only viable/visible horde strategy'? Does one really need to explain all of this stuff to be not called a 'liar'?

5. "The MA system remains as it was in AH1." wrong again , there have been multiple changes to the strat systems in AH.

Maybe I should have clarified, "the basic MA format remains as it was in AH1 - as in, kill defenses, land capture vehicle, capture airfield, the end". Sound better now?

So your basic claim that nothing has been done to change with the times is utter complete BS or lies which ever you prefer. But if you really wish to set up false straw man arguments go a head and keep playing with yourself.

HiTech

Ah yes. The classic, "you're BS, you're a liar, and you're wrong" punchline.

Call me whatever you want, but that doesn't really change the fact that a lot of once faithful customers are growing unhappy over how the MA is turning out, does it?

Gonna call me a liar on that, too? Oh wait, I think I know what's coming;

"People aren't unhappy, the MA is fine, most people just enjoy it, the one's who don't enjoy it are full of BS and are liars and morons, and they can just quit if they don't like it"


But unfortunately, HT, the "I grow tired of the MA.. it's no fun anymore" folks are gonna keep turning up - just like they've been turning up for the last few years. Seeing the ever increasing numbers of old-timers starting to feel that way, actually makes some of us worried about AH. So I don't really expect to see you stop insulting everyone you disagree to - I mean, that's one of your charms and all, but frankly it's not making anyone really feel safe about what's going on in the AH world.

You can call everyone who turns up with these opinions liars, but in the end, when there are a LOT of us 'liars' turning up with worried voices, it may hold some truth to it. I mean, why would anyone want to be a 'liar' about these stuff anyway? It's not as if us 'liars' are getting paid to somehow secretly undermine AH or something, not to mention, being called a 'liar' for making concerned inputs doesn't exactly make any one of us feel all fine and dandy. Not to mention one of these clashes in the BBS with you may even make any of us get PNGd in an awesome display of raw power.

So why risk all that to say something you might not agree on?

Maybe its because we love AH too?

[shreck]

Urchin, when did you stop beating your wife?

If you  wish a question answered, try putting it in the form of a real question, rather than a question loaded with whine.

HiTech

classic     

[humble]

I don't see how you can pin changes on game play on the designer. It's not the game driving the change, its the people in the game. Now I'd love the old FM back but don't have the technical knowledge to argue its more accurate. What I do think is that a tactical arena would do well. you often have more people in FB lake then the EWA or MWA (and sometimes both). The AvA has less use (95% of the time) then any other arena. A few FSO's ago we had the bulge setup with heavy cloud cover at variable levels. Tremendous fun IMO, I also remember low clouds and even fog in another FSO not long ago. I'd love to see an arena with no 4 engine bombers and strat/capture either eliminated or minimized. It wouldnt appeal to everyone but I bet it would get as much or more play then the MWA...

[moot]

Vision of the game ? Why then do I see you guys consistently hovering the edge of a base cherrying all those trying to climb to you ? I thought the "VISION" was a fair engagement with a worthy opponent 

Often, maybe, not consistently.  When it happens it's cause there's no fight elsewhere.  Have you been on our squad vox?  If you had, you'd hear the grinding of teeth anytime fights disappear and we end up doing that. It's utterly boring. Most of us end up logging when it happens for longer than ~30min.  A couple of us log a lot quicker than that without even saying anything

In the DA you guys are very different than in the MA, In the DA you leave your fragile egos at the door, while in the MA you wear them like a pimp wears snake skin platforms, avoiding every little puddle or smidge of dirt 
  If the vets want the "FIGHT" in the MA as they say, then how about offering the fair fight you say you seek, in the MA 

Pure crap.
In blue: bring it on.