Gigant

[qts]

This mid-late war plane was the biggest transport of the war, and could carry tanks.  Methinks this might make things interesting: load up your Gigant with a tank or two, fly to near your target, land (ok, ditch), and exit in the tank. Can be used as a troop transport too.

[fdiron]

WOW, that would be interesting! I'm all for it.  Maybe you could post a picture.  I know of a giant german glider that could carry a tank, but is this aircraft powered by its own engines?

[StSanta]

8 of 'em if I recall correctly, and it used rocket boosters at takeoff.

Had some obvious flaws though  



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StSanta
II/JG2

[B-Town]

AHHH ME WANT!!!
ME WANT ME WANT ME WANT ME WANT ME WANT
Drooooollll..... then I can really have some fun. This is a very good idea. There would be all types of things like transport squadrons popping up. This is something that no other game offers. If you could load another players tanks onto your ac and then fly them to the front line, land/ditch then let them off and fly home or pick them up again after there battle or something.

Would be very coooooolllll!

[snafu]

Sounds cool,
The only drawback I can see is transporting tanks would mean A tanky trusting someone else with thier K/D ratio. If it was carrying several vehicles would you get several kill messages if you shot one down? If it forced a ditch or crash of the enemy who on board would get the kill?

Not critism's just questions  

TTFN
snafu

[Staga]

 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/002336.html

Check this out    
 
Only 10000 kg load   , no Pzkw...


[This message has been edited by Staga (edited 06-11-2000).]

[B-Town]

Oh.....
Is there anything else that we can use for this idea?

[B-Town]

Well,
     If you think about it, this would be something that no other game offered. It would be a major selling point. Which is very cool. If one of these transports got shot down then it would kill all the members of the transport yes, if it ditched, then the tankers would be able to get out of the aircraft. There would have to be a few other safeguards such as weapons disarmament and engine off and such so that when you ground stompers get into my hold you don't accidentally shoot of one of your big rounds while we are in flight. There I guess that it would all depend on the pilot. Maybe a ranking system should be introduced. So that people can see how good the pilot is and if he or she should trust them to fly or not. How many missions, successes, etc. If possible it should be focused on that one particular aircraft not the whole range.  Because if like me you are a ground attack, bomber, transport pilot then you will get shot down and killed more than a fighter pilot or someone who is sitting above a target.

[Jekyll]

Staga, does it REALLY matter whether the Gigant could carry a Panzer in real life?

Give it the capacity to carry 1 Panzer, or 2 M16's etc.  Hell, the flight modelling doesnt have to be too fancy.... max climb rate of about 700 fpm, top speed 160mph, service ceiling 15000 feet.

Oh, and for fun, fit it with the RATO boosters ... mapped to WEP, duration 20 seconds, can only be activated on the ground. (I'm picturing a field wreathed in smoke and flame as 5 Me323's take off)

I've been arguing for the Me323 for weeks now, ever since ground vehicles made their way into AH.

It would, IMHO, open up whole new strategic possibilities if you could carry your armor to the battlefield, rather than the present, somewhat 'cheesy' alternative of having armour magically spawn 20 miles from the nearest friendly field, possibly bypassing enemy tanks on the way.

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
'feel the heat .......'

[Jigster]

According to the stats to the Me-321A-1 It's payload is 48,944 pounds, empty it weighed 26,896 pounds.

Configurations such as the following:
An 88mm Gun and it's tractor,
A self-propelled gun,
A Mark IV tank  ,
or 200 troops  

But that would require the 3 Me110 tow configuration or the 5 engined He-111z

If moving on to the Me-323, the most practical I guess, then there's quite an interesing defensive arangement of the 2 20mm guns, one in each wing turrent and up to 9 13mm 151 guns. And it would be easier to model due to not having to create the tow planes

It's so big it wouldn't be hard to shoot down
and methinks it would make quiet and interesting part of AH  

- Jig

[Manx]

I think that's a bit optimistic payload. The one I have, which I think also is a little optimistic is 35,030 lbs (15890kg).

[edit] Oh, hehe, didn't notice you were talking about the glider version.

Pzkpw IV ausf H is 55,115 lbs, and I don't think it would fit the opening.

I think we need to model a Hetzer (31,967 lbs). btw, Marder II shown is 24,251 lbs.

[This message has been edited by Manx (edited 06-11-2000).]

[Jigster]

Okay found the problem. The original contract that the LW signed for the prototype plans of both the Me-321 and the Junkers Ju-332 stated the list I made. Provisions for each of the following had to be included for the plane to be accepted :
44,090 lbs of normal cargo.
88mm guns and tractor
self-propelled gun
Pzkpw IV
around 200 troops and gear.

The Junkers company had some weird restrictions on their project that never let the Ju-332 flying wing ever really develope.

The Me-321 on the other hand was successful in meeting all the criteria with a normal payload of 48,944 pounds. BUT, it was capable of carry any of the 25ton Pzkpw IV tanks and the lighter Pzkpw III series within it's hold without any major or time consuming modifications. The purpose in the original design was for it to be capable for carrying medium tanks for an invasion of Britain.

Wish I would of seen this the first go round  

There was problems with loading armor when it lacked the proper towing configuration...namely the 3 Me-110's in formation. When the He-111z came about, and the later 6 engine Me-323 version it succeded in what use it got on the Russian front, even being the enormous target it was.

I'm going to do some more diggain...I'm still skeptical of a Pzkpw IV fitting through the main doors.

- Jig

[Jigster]

The first Marder body was 2.2m in width and I think it remained the same on the Marder II correct? Where as the Pzkpw IV is 2.9m (as well as the III series) in width. From that photo of the Me-323 it looks like a snug fit for the Marder II, I wonder if the Pzkpw IV, about 3 feet wider, would make it through the clam shells? I know it bulges under the wing so it should have a problem fitting there.

But with the main deck sitting around 5 feet off the ground and struts at the widest point I don't see how, or any mention of loading through the sides. Perhaps they disassembled the nose to load them?

- Jig

[pzvg]

First answer is the easiest, have HTC make a Pz38t which is a light tank.(Marder was developed on pz38 chassis) One big problem 'tho "the malta turkey shoot" where fighters from Malta intercepted a formation of 30 gigant's trying to resupply the Afrika corps, 25 were shot down. Don't think the big boy will do so hot in our little uberdeadly world  

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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"

[Dinger]

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the Me321/323, and it'\d be cool to see.
But what kind of role can we give it?
It seems to be more the predecessor of a strategic airlifter than a tactical one.  I mean, are you gonna be landing those marders on the front line?  It's a slow,  big target that would be fun in theory, but without a highly elaborate supply system in a "total war" environment, it would see very little use.  Besides, it's huge.  Can you imagine how many artist-hours it would take to model each of the gun positions?
(BTW, there were experimental "Waffenträger" and bomber versions of it.  IIRC, the gunship wasn't popular because, although it carried A LOT of guns, it was a HUGE target that was easy to whack.  And the bomber testbed had been strafed by marauding yankee planes, so when it took off with a single 17,000 kg bomb, it suffered massive structural failure.
)