A hypothetical question for the crowd regarding kills landed messages...

[uptown]

I think the actual question should be,  If you are the type that, cares less" about "name in lights or score" at all why land? If the fight is all that matters, then wouldn't it be more efficient to take off, find the furball, fight till ammo and or fuel is gone, ditch, then up a new ride? The time lost from the fighting just to RTB is completely a waste of time, IF "name in lights" and score is so meaningless to an individual!
I think the truth is somewhere in between, as people want to be recognized, just not recognized as tards  

It must be very difficult for some folks who continue the chanting of "score and name in lights" doesn't matter, yet landing their kills on a regular basis.    Oh the internal torment this must cause    

Dat wat i talkin bout !You go on and tell it green dude!

[mtnman]

I would only raise the amount of kills that would have to be landed to 5 kills (ace sortie). This would prevent people from getting 2 kills and bailing on you.

I don't actually believe this thread is going to have any effect on the way the game is played, but for arguments sake...

Maybe it would work to have the difficulty-level of getting a kill message increase as "skill" improves.  Start out as 2 kills, but then only reward with the kill message if a player surpasses his/her previous kills landed "record".  If I've landed 15 kills, for example, I'll never get another message until I land 16...

I guess I don't see this thread idea as purely beneficial either.  I see it as a balance or trade-off.  Remove the message- what do we get?  Do we get better fights because there's no fear of losing? Nope.  Do we get better fights because there's less incentive to land kills?  Could go either way..  Maybe they'll stick around because there's no incentive to return/live/succeed.  Then again, with no incentive to return/live/succeed, why put forth any real effort to win?  

Personally, I want my opponent to have an incentive to beat me.  If he doesn't care, I can't believe he'll try as hard as he would if he did care.

Would this "scoreless", "rewardless", "gloryless" concept work in any other competitive aspect of our lives?  If not why would we expect it to work here?  

Would an athlete compete as hard if there were no scores kept?  Would you work hard at school or work if your effort had no effect on any aspect of your life?  Be honest- if your life expenses were taken care of whether you went to work or not, and whether you worked hard or not, would you still go and put forth a good effort?

[moot]

All I care about is having the best fights possible in the game.  If changing the kill messages one way or another will change the overall trends in the game towards better fights, I'm all for it.  I personally don't care much about em right now. They're no more an indication of what the fights were like than score or stats are.

[Belial]

Some of my proudest kills landed were 2 kills, when your shoot down 2 people and they know you are hurting really bad, maybe even they saw your wing fall off.  Going home to land with one wing and 4 spit 16's chasing you is very good for a laugh.

[moot]

Landing 2 kills from 5min+ edge of your seat and sweaty hands fights beats any 20+ streak.  Apples and oranges, even.

[Steve]

Mtnman and shreck make some good points, and they echo a couple of mine. As players in this game, we all like competition.  So, in as much as we all like to win, we all care about our "score" to varying degrees. For me, the stats are a good yardstick on my performance. I'd like to get better at getting kills while under duress and I'd like to improve my accuracy. Also, I like to look at other's stats to compare to mine or to just see how they are doing.


For a person to say the do not care about their score utterly, is wholly dishonest.

Also, we all enjoy recognition by our peers. I'm not talking about  "name in lights" specifically, but other things as well. Let's use Bucky as one example. He's a good stick and likes to fight but doesn't care about  seeing his name in lights. I bet, after he put up his fiercest resistance against say, a 3v1  where he got one or two of the bad guys, he'd appreciate on some level if his opponents acknowledged his fine fliyng with a "Good fight" or "WTG".  I'm not saying Bucky's night would be ruined if he didn't get it, but it's nice to have one's efforts recognized. This is just human nature.

Speaking for myself, I appreciate a WTG, or <S> in the arena, whether it's for my name in lights, putting up a good fight in defeat,  or for just clearing a teammate's 6. It's just as gratifying to help a teammate as it is to get a kill. In fact, if I were known for anything at all, I'd wish it  was that I am a good teammate.  My enjoyment of the game isn't snuffed if the attaboy's aren't forthcoming, but they are nice. I think everyone who is strong enough to be honest will admit this as well.

[moot]

The only attention I give score is to commandeer CVs to land on em.  I don't think good sportsmanship and score are so closely related.  They're separate concerns.

[Steve]

The only attention I give score is to commandeer CVs to land on em.  I don't think good sportsmanship and score are so closely related.  They're separate concerns.

I don't believe you. If you didn't care about score on any level, you wouldn't compete.

[Animl]

Well I'll speak only for myself.  I don't think it would influence the way I fly.
 Come on... I'm sure you've gotten more than 4 or 5 without a rearm.
Or do you rtb at 5?   

I only RTB if the fight gets boring and I might have a enough fuel to make it home and ammo is super low, no matter 1 kill or 20. The only time I pull out of a fight is bingo ammo, I drop out of a fight when the fuel runs out. I *never* base my fighting on landing kills, It's just icing on the cake to me if I happen to. If I were wrorried about landing kills I wouldn't drive a 190 on the deck in a horde of spits, 38s and LAs.

I think landing kills makes a huge difference in the way many fly. For one, "running" home to land kills. Some pile-its will leave their buds getting mauled to run home and land kills. SOME <cough> will escort some out of a fight so they can run home and land perks,..... know what I mean? I think it effects the way people fly more then they think, and\or willing to admit. Since the old added is "who cares about points?", hence we deal with denial. "I don't care about points, but I will cry like a baby if someone kills me OTW to land them..."

That said, it would not effect me since I RARELY make it home to land kills. Mostly because I rarely take enough fuel, I start my flight from 2 bases out, and my bouncy x52 makes me spray ammo a little more then I'd like. I know if I were to actually land a kill and my name in lights,... it would entail expensive party favors and dancing girls for such a rare occasion.

So I agree with Guppy's initial thoughts on this. I don't think it should be done away with because to each their own. But points\perks to get perked planes in itself promotes dweebery...IMO. But then you almost can't not perk planes. OTOH in that other game, AC was never perked at all and you didn't quite have the same issues. Spits wouldn't be so uber if other planes were free to go up against them...IMO.

[moot]

I don't believe you. If you didn't care about score on any level, you wouldn't compete.

When I say score I mean the statistics accounted from everything I do in game.  They're just numbers. I play the game to have fun, to compete in the fights, not to have the best numbers.  If I have competitive stats and score as a direct consequence of having fun and kicking ass, it's not the end I'm aiming for, for as much.
I'd ditch public broadcasting of my stats and kills, yep.  People would still recognize a pattern if everytime they got a kill on or from me, it was coincident with good fights from a competitive player.  That's all the reputation you need.  Not a score system that makes people dodge good fights because it might put a dent in their stats/score.

[Shuffler]

anyone know of any real life pilots that did not mark their # of kills on their plane?

Do you know how many never flew again after becoming a mark on another plane?

[Bucky73]

Also, we all enjoy recognition by our peers. I'm not talking about  "name in lights" specifically, but other things as well. Let's use Bucky as one example. He's a good stick and likes to fight but doesn't care about  seeing his name in lights. I bet, after he put up his fiercest resistance against say, a 3v1  where he got one or two of the bad guys, he'd appreciate on some level if his opponents acknowledged his fine fliyng with a "Good fight" or "WTG".  I'm not saying Bucky's night would be ruined if he didn't get it, but it's nice to have one's efforts recognized. This is just human nature.

Agree totally. I don't however care if I get them from my fellow countrymen unless they were there and witnessed my moment of GREATNESS.

[Steve]

When I say score I mean the statistics accounted from everything I do in game.  They're just numbers. I play the game to have fun, to compete in the fights, not to have the best numbers.  If I have competitive stats and score as a direct consequence of having fun and kicking ass, it's not the end I'm aiming for, for as much.
I'd ditch public broadcasting of my stats and kills, yep.  People would still recognize a pattern if everytime they got a kill on or from me, it was coincident with good fights from a competitive player.  That's all the reputation you need.  Not a score system that makes people dodge good fights because it might put a dent in their stats/score.

ahh, I am not being clear. When I am referring to score, for the sake of this conversaiton, I do not mean just the score pages. I mean getting in fights and competing with the desire to succeed.  Since you are a furballer, "succeed" would be to find a worthy opponent(s) and kill him or at least get in a good fight where the victor demonstrated fair minded puissance.  Now naturally this wouldn't be fun or competitive if you killed him every time, or lost every time.  I'm confident that you would like to win at least a few well earned victories. Inasmuch as this is true for you, you care about "score".

[moot]

Yes I do, in that sense.. but I don't check the leaderboards.

[shreck]

It would be much more entertaning if the message listed, who you killed